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sageykins
Thanks anarch- I've questioned myself a lot- but I think it's better we're ending. He needs to move out though... (Still here, not leaving this weekend probably because place not ready and we just got whalloped by the snow-icane). Oi.
Anyway, thank you smile.gif
anarch
I'm really glad you're protecting yourself and getting free of that situation, sageykins.

Good luck with the transition.
sageykins
(((((buttercups)))))
(that was the real reason I was posting any comment, and I realized I didn't do this, sorry girlie. Pulling for you)
buttercups
Thanks sageykins, you're the one who really needs a hug, what you've been through is just awful! I'm so very sorry. If I found out he was getting pics from her recently, oh man all hell would break loose! I know it's so hard to break-up, even when the guy is a complete asshole, so I think you're very strong to end it. No woman ever deserves to be treated the way you were, and I can't wait til his ass is away from you so you can realize how great you are and how fucked up that whole thing really truly was. I'm pulling for you too, and I admire your strength <3 Can't wait to hear that he's gone so you can recover from all this crap!
angie_21
wow buttercups and sageykins, I'm so sorry to hear that. sageykins, I'm glad you know to kick him to the curb, recent photos means they are in contact and as far as I'm concerned it's flirting, too. and that's just plain not acceptable. Buttercups, if I were you I would be right pissed, and if he has kept pics of her and been looking at them on a regular basis, I can guess exactly what he's doing with them, and it's not about the memories. Even if it is somewhat innocent, and even if they aren't in contact or anything like that, I think this is something worth talking about. I have no problem with my guy looking at internet porn, but when it's photos of someone he knows, or has been with in the past, I would completely lose it. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions in your case, I don't know the whole situation... but look out for yourself and let him know it just plain isn't OK with you. If it hurts you, don't just give him hints or ask him to stop please if it wouldn't be that much of a problem for him... he really may mean nothing by it, but if he continues after you've told him how much you don't like it, and tries to lie about it on top of everything else, you've got to lay down the law!
sageykins
Thanks girls! You're all correct and I appreciate the support. smile.gif Am frustrated he is still here, but then again, the weather is insane here, there's like 3 feet of snow piled up all over, and it wouldn't be ideal conditions for moving. Then again, we moved him down here on the hottest day of April last year.... So maybe it would be fitting somehow..... Something like hell has frozen over or.... Idk...
kittenb
I need to vent! For months now The Geek has been working on some project that has given him multilple late nights working from home a week. I mean 2-3 AM late. It's insane ans stupid and it is making me a little crazy. I just do not believe that everyone else in his company is working this many hours. This has caused many dissagreements because a) I am actually worried about the effect this will have on his overall health and cool.gif I miss falling asleep with him. I feel guilty that I am so upset about this because I'm not working but I find it difficult not to nag him about the hours he is keeping. I really don't think he is slacking off at the office. I believe that he is this busy. However, he won't let up. And, even if he knows that he has work to do once he gets home, he takes time to do something relaxing, like gaming, before he starts the work. I understand that he needs the downtime but why doesn't he understand that he also needs to prioritize sleep?! For example, last night we watched UP. Before we settled in I asked, "Will watching this now mean that you have to stay up late doing work?" He said no that he only had a little bit to do. Cut to him crawling in to bed at 3AM, waking me up. The whole thing upset me so much that I couldn't get back to sleep for hours.
Does it make sense that I am this upset? I've never worked a job where I could take work home with me and I've rarely worked in an environment as corporate as his. I don't understand what he is doing. I will also point out that, until I lost it on him a few weeks ago, when he works this hard, in his downtime he wants to game and twice a week he has rehearsals tha last until midnight. I don't mind that we don't do everything together but DAMN this leaves me about two nights a week that I get to see him and go to sleep with him. I want to be supportive but I want to see my boyfriend once in a fucking while!
Any advice? Should I just calm the hell down about this and see what happens when/if this project ever ends?
ketto
Is this supposed to continue for a while, Kitten? It it's just temporary I'd probably just hold tight but it sounds like it's been happening for quite a while now. I can't really relate to the falling asleep thing but I can relate to the not enough time together thing. I actually prefer to go to sleep before paperboy because I find it really hard to fall asleep to the sound of someone breathing or snoring. I also need 8-10 hours of sleep a night but he only needs 5-6 so our weird sleep schedules work out well because I can go to bed at 11 and he can go to bed at 1 or 2 and we're both happy.

It sounds like the whole thing has you really upset and frustrated. Are there any compromises you can make? For example, paperboy will often crawl into bed and spoon with me until I'm either asleep or almost asleep and then he'll get back up and play video games or something. The real issue I would have is that he doesn't seem to be available for quality time.

In our relationship, I tend to be the busier one. Right now I have a fulltime job, soccer games one evening a week, a training course two evenings a week, and I just accepted a new job so I'm busy preparing for that and researching on my downtime. We kind of take it as a given that we'll have ebbs and flows in terms of busy-ness. I know it really bothered paperboy last year but we've talked about the fact that sometimes (in this case, 3 months of crazy busy-ness for me) one or both of us is just going to be stupid busy and we wont' have a lot of time for each other. He gets disappointed because I never feel like going out because I'm so tired and all I want to do is sit in front of the TV and zone out. But these episodes usually have a time limit and we can both look forward to the busy period ending.
sageykins
I'm wondering the same question- is this a 2 month long thing or is it going to carry on for 6 months or more?
I'm not in a corporate situation- but I have had to bring work home at times, and it's a pain in the rear for me to have work at home- home is supposed to be the relaxing, calm place where I can rest and get away from work.... And here sits paperwork... So I understand sometimes there is a need for doing work at home and for him- I'd say he's probably not enjoying it at all (just fyi).
But from your side, I see your desire for time with him. Can he plan to have 2 nights a week -1 where he cuts out work and gives up rehearsal 1 night a week? Have you said to him that you just need time with him? That you miss going to bed with him? That your desire isn't to add stress but to be with him... because you know, you love him.... smile.gif
Sending good thoughts to you...
kittenb
Thanks for the support ladies. At this point, we have talked about it. A lot. rolleyes.gif He knows that I am trying to be supportive but don't always achieve that. Well, nobody's perfect.
I think this project ends at the end of this month. I am sure something else will come up at some point. Yesterday was a bad day in many ways and that might have something to do with why I reacted so strongly. I felt better and more rational after some exercise. I have not slept well all week between his work and the fact that we are retraining one of our cats to NOT wake us up at 4:30 AM every morning. This requires me getting out of bed twice a night to put the cat out of the bedroom and then put the cat in the bathroom should the behavior continue. So, really I haven't had uninterrupted sleep in about a month considering the cat's behavior. When I put it that way it makes sense that my perspective was skewed yesterday. I don't deal well w/o regular 8 hours of sleep.
In every other way he is a great boyfriend. If I wasn't busy with school I would probably have my own fun hobbies & etc, like he does so I wouldn't notice his abscense so much when he was off to rehearsals. And if I had internet access like I used to (long story, soon to be resolevd) I would have the ability to do my own games and fun time stuff.
So, all things considered, I told him yesterday that I think I just need to get used to his sleep patterns and work commitments. His work ethic really reflects a commitment to us, after all. Someone has to buy the groceries, you know? He even offered to sleep in the guest rooms on nights that he works late but I feel like that would be punishing him for doing nothing wrong.
Thanks again. I feel better about it all today. We've got plans both together and seperate for this weekend which is a good balance. And it is Oscar weekend, which he knows is important to me. We've agreed he can game on Sunday until about 6 then it is all about me and the Oscars. Mostly about me.
angie_21
Hey Kitten, everyone else seems to have the right idea. I too have been working late hours so can only see it from the other side, but in terms of gaming - I would hate it, but he is doing it to give himself something kind of mindless to take a break. About 3 days a week I have to work until midnight, but I sit and watch TV for at least an hour before getting started because I just don't have the energy to find another way to chill out my brain. And I do kind of avoid my sweetie because I know interaction when I'm stressed doesn't actually end up being romantic at all. So I do see why he is behaving that way. My situation ends in 3 weeks, if he keeps taking on projects like this I think you are right to need a sit down talk about his work/life priorities and what he is willing to give up to continue on this career path.

In terms of the cat - we retrained my kittie by simply lockign her out of our room 24 hours a day. It took about 2 straight weeks of her meowing at our door (earplugs) but now she doesn't really have much of an interest in the room at all, and sleeps by herself on the couch at night. sometimes she still wakes up at 4 and meows, but it only lasts a few minutes and it's much quieter than before. I don't know if you guys are in the best place for the intense patience requried for the first week of constant meowing right at the moment, but it was well worth it!
luleey
Hey Kittenb...just lurking around in the bust lounge and happened on your post about your cat. I like angie's idea a lot too, and it occured to me my sis was having the same prob with one of her cats (she has three, and the youngest and most active was waking them up EVERY night mutliple times). Finally she broke down and got him a "doggie" cage...which he TOTALLY loves!! He hangs out in it during the day and like clockwork each night he waits to be "put" inside before she and her hubby go to bed. And, if he finds any of the other cats trespassing in there, he stares 'em down until they get out! Hilarious...hope you find a solution too!!

...Sorry to be kind of off topic ladies. I'll try and lurk more silently. wink.gif
Persiflager
Interesting Metafilter thread on relationship hacks to resolve arguments.

I look forward to dancing the joyous dance of wrongness!
sybarite
Some interesting ideas there Persi... and a lot less 'look what an awesome relationship we have' crowing than I would have expected!

I particularly like the 100% idea, as well as the need to recognise those issues we're especially (irrationally?) invested in; the dual coffee carafe solution is fairly typical of our relationship FWIW.... blink.gif
anarch
Thanks for posting that link. I'd have missed it otherwise. Great suggestions in there.
Persiflager
Yes, I thought the constructiveness of the replies was refreshing. My other half is much better than I am at defusing arguments, but this falls down if we're both feeling grumpy, so next time this happens I'm going to see if 'bagsying' grumpiness works.
ketto
That was a great link, I think I often expect paperboy to read my mind, even when I'm saying, "I know you can't read my mind, but...". I'm definitely guilty of expecting people to react to things the same way I do and then get upset when they don't.

I liked some of the ideas for having a certain word or phrase that would mean "let's drop it" or "i'm not ready to talk about that right now". I think it would be useful for me because sometimes I feel emotional or pissed off and I don't really know why and when paperboy keeps asking me "what's wrong" I just get annoyed.

How is everyone doing? Things are good on our end but they've felt a little different lately, in a good way. It's like we both realized that yeah, I think I want to be with this person for the long haul. We bought a car together a month ago and now we're locked into a lease together for 5 years. We went to a wedding on the weekend and I noticed in the last few weeks paperboy will say things like "when we get married" or "at our wedding"... I know I want to marry him but I don't want a wedding (i'd rather elope or go to city hall alone) so he started saying who we could both invite. It was funny because it almost seems like a sub-conscious thing that he'll just start talking about.
anarch
QUOTE(ketto @ May 26 2010, 09:37 AM) *
I noticed in the last few weeks paperboy will say things like "when we get married" or "at our wedding"...


Ha! That's sweet.

My situation's good, hallelujah. No news is good news!
karategrrl
QUOTE(Persiflager @ May 25 2010, 03:30 PM) *

Persiflager, great link. Thanks! I've been lurking here on and off but will be checking back here more often.
RoxieRage
That link is highly useful, especially since my boyfriend and I are stuck in a rut of when we fight, I stay angry and he goes outside to smoke, comes back, and thinks everything is fine. He has yet to learn that saying we're going to figure something out, and then ignoring the issue for three days, does not make the issue go away and everything go back to normal.
karategrrl
QUOTE(RoxieRage @ Jun 13 2010, 10:43 PM) *
That link is highly useful, especially since my boyfriend and I are stuck in a rut of when we fight, I stay angry and he goes outside to smoke, comes back, and thinks everything is fine. He has yet to learn that saying we're going to figure something out, and then ignoring the issue for three days, does not make the issue go away and everything go back to normal.

I have come to realize that that is very typical male behavior. My hubby is very similar and it's been one of the thorns in my marriage, for sure. If I contemplate the "why," it makes my brain short out, so I try more and more to stay away from the "why." For some reason, they are just wired differently when it comes to that. Conflict seems to make most men retreat.

Just want to offer up something in case you or anyone else may find it useful. Hubby and I had a fight pattern--he would retreat when things got heated. The more he retreated, the more I pursued (fearing that if I let him retreat, he'd go off, forget it, and then we'd never resolve it). Each of our actions would only aggravate the other's, until all manner of shit was seriously shitting the fan. Our marriage counselor suggested a technique: either of us can call a "time out" when things get too heated (like a "7" on a scale of 1 to 10). Then we BOTH must back away and cool off. The clincher is the 2nd part: we MUST come together again at some point when we can discuss it rationally (within a half hour, 24 hours, 2 days, whatever--one asks if it's a good time and other says "yes" or "not yet.") That way, hubby gets space and I get to talk. We've tried it a couple of times and it did work well, I have to say. I find it much easier to back off when I know we will talk--just later--and he actually cools off faster when he gets the space he needs. Case in point: first time we did it, he was ready to talk after only 20 minutes. And we resolved it without all the pain it took in the past. We were both pretty surprised! YMMV, though.

A couple of the most interesting things I've learned from my own marriage experience:
-We all get into patterns with our partners (and family members/coworkers too!)
-Change truly can come from only ONE of the couple changing something--the other does not even have to be aware!

I read a bunch of books by Michele Weiner Davis (Divorce Busting, Change Your Life and Everyone in It, etc.) and she offers some good, concrete ideas of how to affect change and really shake things up for the better in a relationship. The ideas are all really the same from book to book, so I do recommend them to anyone interested in this topic. I must say it's been fun for me to step out of my usual way of doing things as well, and watch the "huh???!!" reactions! biggrin.gif

Roxie Rage, I know your BF's behavior is upsetting and aggravating. Hang in there! Good for you for recognizing you guys' "patterns" and the need for change. Very smart of you.

Sorry this post was so long!
karategrrl
QUOTE(karategrrl @ Jun 16 2010, 12:04 PM) *
until all manner of shit was seriously shitting the fan.

Heh, I meant, "hitting the fan."
sukouyant
Not sure whether the best place to post this is here or in the LD thread, but here feels right. It's just a rant, but I'm thinking in circles and maybe someone else out there has a light on a different perspective.

Me and my partner of 7 odd long distance years are having a big fight about moving and he's determined to have me move to New York. I just feel crazy talking to anyone around me about this - The response is typically "if someone I were in love with lived in NY I'd jump at the chance". nobody's first instinct is ever, "well why doesn't he move here/to where you are?"

Aside from me thinking I already live in a great city, when you put what it means for him to move vs what it means for me to move beside each other, there are so many practical reasons why it's better for me not to move - I literally am starting to feel crazy for being the only person who sees them, and stupid for not seeing the benefits of moving to NYC. But it's not for everyone.

I've been visiting NY for 8 years and I'm so over it. I just don't see anything there for me that I want and that I don't already have, except for life with him. How can I go there and make him the center of my existence?

Everyone is patting me on the head, like, making a move isn't a big deal, you can get another job, if it doesn't work out you have a home to come to etc.

I'm not 25 anymore, which would be an entirely different scene. I'm in my mid-thirties and feel like I'm the only one who knows math. He's like - hey we can move to Toronto later, it would be great to do that in a couple of years. Math time:

So I leave my job, that I love, mid-career, immigrate to NY and find a new one to love, try to have a kid in between, try to get my job back after that - or maybe not have a kid, but either way, leave New York after a couple years to start this over again in another city in my 40's, possibly with a kid...Does that really make sense to him?

He says he has maybe 10 more working years in him in his industry. I have 35!* Why is me moving to New York for the sake of his job (which is what this appears to be about for him) the best way to go? He thinks I'm crazy for not wanting to go there and have the freedom of him supporting me for as long as I need to get a job, and not just any job, one that I like. All well and good, most people *would* jump at that, but all I can see right now is going there to get an entry level job, maybe even loving it, but ultimately leaving New York and starting over somewhere else after he retires, 'cause it's not the city for me. All I see is giving up any hope of career advancement, to be with him, when, if I didn't move, I wouldn't have to give that up. Not that I have the best job in the world, but for all it's flaws it's what I do and it enriches my life and I know I have it for as long as I want, if I don't quit. Job security when you enjoy your job, after a long line of s**t work, is no little thing.

I want to see the benefits and even the possibilities I honestly do, but I wish someone would hear what I'm saying.


*our ages aren't that different, it's just the nature of our jobs
ketto
Sukouyant, what have your conversations about moving been like? I mean have they been conversations or arguments that just get defensive? It sounds like in every practical (and emotional way) for you that him making the move would make the most sense.

Have you told him all the things you wrote below? You didn't really talk about what the conversations have been like so maybe he just doesn't realize all those factors are what you're thinking about. Some people just can't think that far ahead in the long run and it never occurs to them that yeah, trying to have a kid/move/find a new job in your late thirties/early forties isn't that easy, especially when it means giving up a job that you enjoy. Does he know that even if you moved there you see yourself coming back in a couple of years anyway?
It kind of sounds like the two of you are at a bit of a stand off now without either side willing to hear the logic behind both options.

QUOTE
I'm not 25 anymore, which would be an entirely different scene. I'm in my mid-thirties and feel like I'm the only one who knows math. He's like - hey we can move to Toronto later, it would be great to do that in a couple of years. Math time:

So I leave my job, that I love, mid-career, immigrate to NY and find a new one to love, try to have a kid in between, try to get my job back after that - or maybe not have a kid, but either way, leave New York after a couple years to start this over again in another city in my 40's, possibly with a kid...Does that really make sense to him?

He says he has maybe 10 more working years in him in his industry. I have 35!* Why is me moving to New York for the sake of his job (which is what this appears to be about for him) the best way to go? He thinks I'm crazy for not wanting to go there and have the freedom of him supporting me for as long as I need to get a job, and not just any job, one that I like. All well and good, most people *would* jump at that, but all I can see right now is going there to get an entry level job, maybe even loving it, but ultimately leaving New York and starting over somewhere else after he retires, 'cause it's not the city for me. All I see is giving up any hope of career advancement, to be with him, when, if I didn't move, I wouldn't have to give that up. Not that I have the best job in the world, but for all it's flaws it's what I do and it enriches my life and I know I have it for as long as I want, if I don't quit. Job security when you enjoy your job, after a long line of s**t work, is no little thing.
stargazer
sukouyant, it sounds like you want to settle down in Toronto since you are happy with your life there. It also sounds like you already feel like you are contributing more than your share in the relationship. Do you feel he has contributed to the relationship equally in the 8 years you've been together? Do you feel that he is concerned with your happiness? It sounds like you feel you will be giving up a lot of yourself in moving.

I agree with ketto that by your post, your boyfriend and you sound like you are at a standstill. There is nothing wrong with what you want for yourself in your post. It might just be that your boyfriend and you are on different paths right now.
buttercups
Sukouyant, I agree with ketto and star- it just sounds like your heart really is in where your home is now. I think its pretty old-fashioned of everyone to think that you have to follow your man and go wherever he goes. You're right in that you have a job you love and a place you love so why should you automatically be considered the one who has to move? Maybe you two should sit down and make a list of pros and cons (I know its so cliche) together and decide what would be the best for both of you. I like that you haven't lost yourself and that you're thinking about what your wants and needs are.

Ugh been having my own little bf issues lately. We've been dating for 2.5 years now and after all this time I still don't like his friends. I've tried to get over a lot of it and just go with the flow, but sometimes I can't help showing how I feel about them. I'm also kind of a more introverted person- my ideal night, as boring as this may be, is Chinese food, my boy, and a movie. I thought that he really enjoyed it as much as me, but the other night he told me that he's always worried about upsetting me and hesitates to make plans with his friends because he is afraid of upsetting me from it. I feel like he just spends time with me now almost out of pity- because he said he doesn't want to leave me alone- and out of fear of upsetting me. I don't want to be that girl that rules her bf's life and takes him away from all of his friends and everything- no matter how much I don't like them. I feel like I need to seriously back away from him now and everything just feels so strange. Have I been that controlling without realizing it? It makes me look like such a bitch and someone I never wanted to be. I'm just wondering if I need to take a break from our relationship for his sake so that he can be free to go do what he wants without being afraid of what I'm thinking or doing. I love spending time with him but maybe he hasn't equally enjoyed our time together and would rather be out with his friends more often. I don't want to be in charge of anyone else's life. I love him more than I've ever loved anyone, and can say that he's the closest I've ever come to finding what I would call "the one", but maybe we need to spend some time apart. I tried telling him that I would back off and we could just reserve 1 or 2 nights a week to see each other so that he could go out with his friends, but he said that's not what he wants and I can't tell if that's because he thinks it will hurt my feelings. I was thinking too about how maybe we should start thinking about moving in together, but now it seems like I'll be smothering him if we do that. All the things I wanted don't reallly seem like they would be right anymore. Ever since we've had this talk I've been pushing him away from me and to his friends. I cancelled plans with him tonight, telling him to go out with them, and I did the same thing on Fri night. not sure what to do..
sybarite
Sukouyant, yeesh. My longterm bf and I live together but are having ongoing issues about moving(separately/together, abroad or not), so it's a situation I've thought about a lot. Your post made me curious about some things: does he need to be in NYC to do his work or can he do it from elsewhere? Can he actually support you financially for a considerable length of time, and would you be happy to accept that? If so, is there a project you could pursue which would make your time in NYC worthwhile, and allow you to return to your area of work? Could you stay for less than 10 years? Is continuing as you are becoming (more?) problematic for both of you, or just for him?

I only ask the above as ways of understanding the situation and identifying possible alternatives, but perhaps the last question is the most important. If you're both happy in your respective cities and both enjoy your work then it's a huge compromise for either of you to move IMO--it would be different if one of you were restless or unhappy with work/where you live. How cool NYC is has nothing to do with it; being broke in NYC can make you miserable, for example. I too would resent any assumption that my work/life was less entrenched just because it wasn't in New York.

Buttercups, it sounds to me that you are still hurt--understandably--at what he said, and putting some distance between you as a response. I would do(and have done) the same thing, but it also sounds like he knows what he said was hurtful and is trying to communicate that in saying he doesn't really want to scale back his time with you. I'm like you these days; I enjoy being at home more than going out more often than not. Our solution is that the bf and I simply socialise separately most of the time--but then we live together so we still see each other every day.

In a nutshell, I think everything you're feeling is valid. He's probably just more social than you right now, but this doesn't at all mean his feelings for you are any less.
girltrouble
suk, just my two cents-- and it's pure opinion, not tempered by being level headed or even handed-- moving into almost any city where you know no one except your SO is a bad idea unless you are married (i.e. hardcore committed to each other). finding people that you like, a small clique is difficult in any city is hard, and the tendency is to cling to the one person you know. the problem with that is that it prevents you from finding outlets-- a group of people and interests that are *strictly* yours. those things keep you sane, give you perspective on the city, and help you really explore the city and who you are in it.

most people think cities are just places, but they are organic, and change who you are to some degree. you in bumfuck egypt, alaska, is gonna be radically different that you in center of things NYC, or party town miami, and you need to have the latitude to do that growing, and friends, places, and things to do help you with that. otherwise you get tunnel vision and withdraw.

in your situation, he's got one of those anchors-- a job. and with that comes friends, the places and people they talk about and roots. you don't get that being unemployed, and moving with him. you have a greater loss, the loss of that job you love, the friends you've cultivated, the places you know and adore. it's each having two sand castles, with him kicking yours down, and asking you to work on his....

contrary to what we are told love is not all (this coming from someone who lives for love), and just cos you love someone truly madly deeply, doesn't mean it'll work out. especially with the math you put up. the having to restart your job situation repeatedly is too much to ask. finding a job you love is, (for me at least) more rare than love. add a child on top of that? gah!
karategrrl
I have to chime in. At 41, I'm not an old fart by any means but I think maybe some of my life experience could be valuable to you guys.

sukouyant, I feel for you. You love your job and your city, you love your guy. They monkey wrench is, they don't all exist happily in the same place. I say trust your gut. First off, I moved from NYC after a lifetime there. For many, it's the mecca but for me I'd had it. After 8 years of visits and still not feeling the "I must live there" pangs, I'd say you wouldn't be deeply happy there either, man or no man. Screw what anyone else thinks--no city is right for everyone. Only YOU know what works for you.

Also, building a career you now love is no small feat, and it's no wonder you don't want to leave it behind. You sound quite independent, and I could see you not liking dependence on him for money, job, friends--which is how it would be, at least at first. I think there's a decent chance such a move could actually poison your relationship b/c you'd gain his presence but lose many, many other things you love. ...and in creeps resentment...

The only other thing I'd suggest is (if you can) taking a leave of absence from work for as long as you can, and give it a try. (But make it long enough so that you outlast his "best behavior" stage that guys are so good at.) If you must, tell your job it's for any reason BUT possibly moving; keep your options at home open, and don't burn that bridge.


buttercups, to you I also say trust your feelings. What could be better than wanting to be home alone with your sweetie? It doesn't make you necessarily less social than he--maybe just less social in that sort of "surrounded by neanderthals" situation. For what it's worth, I think you are doing a smart thing. Back off and see if he closes the gap. You have time to think and observe his actions. How he reacts should speak volumes, one way or the other.


I will leave you both with one thing I read recently: There are no "right" or "wrong" choices--only a different set of outcomes for whatever you choose.

Getting off my soapbox now...sorry for being so wordy--my personal mis-adventures seem less tragic to me if at least someone else can learn from them. wink.gif
karategrrl
QUOTE(girltrouble @ Jul 19 2010, 12:13 PM) *
it's each having two sand castles, with him kicking yours down, and asking you to work on his....

I just re-read that. Well put!
anarch
QUOTE(karategrrl @ Jul 27 2010, 09:35 AM) *
I just re-read that. Well put!


Amen. Nice to see you around these parts again, gt!
Persiflager
Latecomer to the party...

sukouyant, it doesn't sound like he's prepared to consider moving to be with you, or that he's thinking about the long-term implications. Has he suggested any compromises at all, other than vague promises to move back in a couple of years? Come to that, do you think he'd really follow through on that, or could the 'couple of years' last longer than you think? I don't feel that I have much to offer in the way of life experience on this topic, but I absolutely see your point of view.

buttercups, it honestly sounds like you picked that fight! I understand why you're upset (like syb, I've been there....), but it honestly sounds like you picked that fight! I'm guessing that you usually like to be nice, and you're not comfortable with conflict?

Look, if he didn't enjoy your company and didn't still want to be with you, he would have broken up with you. Really. He hasn't stuck in there for 2.5 years out of pity, and he assumes that you know this by now. And it's ok to not like his friends. It doesn't make you a bad girlfriend.

Be honest - have any of your conversations ever gone like this?

HIM: Um, the guys asked me over to Bob's house tonight. Do you want to come?
YOU: Sure, that sounds like fun!
or
YOU: No, but you go and have fun, I've got lots of work to do anyway.

In either scenario (assuming that you don't like Bob), you'll end up resenting him because you'll have a boring evening, and feeling worse about it because you don't feel that you have an excuse to be angry. And he'll know that you're not happy but he won't really know what to do to fix it.

Have you ever responded with "To be honest love, I don't really like Bob, but I'd love to see you. Do you want to come over to mine instead?"?. To which he might say "Well, it's Bob's birthday so I really have to go, but let's make plans for tomorrow" or "Absolutely! You're much prettier than Bob, and I'll be catching up with the guys later in the week anyway".

Do you have any mutual friends, or this there anything you could do together where you might make some? I know that you said you're happier staying in, but would you like to be social in a group sometimes if his friends weren't such asshats? And does he get on with any of your friends?
sukouyant
I just wanted to thank everybody for their thoughts on this I can't tell you how much I appreciate reading these points of view (and I've been re-reading them while thinking the problem though). I've been sinking into some blues that I'm finding hard to kick but don't want you all to think I'm ignoring these responses. I just got back from a trip to see mr man and feel confused and unhappy. The trip was great, but the discussions about all of this were pretty brutal.

Yeah, Persiflager, I've been thinking about how he's suddenly not interested in compromising on this point at all. He's recently come into a bit of money and I think that to him, bankrolling this whole thing = his share of compromise. I think he also feels empowered by his money and that he can live his life the way *he* wants to, without needing to compromise anything. I'm somewhere between pissed off, confused, edging towards heartbroken about what that implies about where I fit in his life. I suppose in another light, money can be seen as a form of caring, and he's inviting me to make my own decision, they way that he's made his, even if that includes not moving there and stepping back from our relationship. It makes me angry, maybe at myself. I would like to feel the way he does, and for it to be easy for me say "so long, lover" after all these years.

GirlTrouble, I keep coming back to your analogy about sandcastles because it's so apt.

I've been trying to warm up to the idea of moving to new york and getting over my initial fears about being supported by a man and re-building the things that are important to me. I've also been trying to find the third or fourth options that might make this work for both of us - including trying to finesse some sort of leave of absence, like you mentioned karategrrl - but now it seems as though I'm the only one trying to do all of this - and what's the point of that?

Thoughts all over the place, like, Is this a conflict about not wanting to move to new york, or is it a meta-conflict about how he really sees me and 'us' and about my insecurities when it comes to that? Is the real leap of faith moving there - or is it leaving this relationship? And wait a minute - why am I the one leaping and hopping all over this thing? Endless spirals. Anyway, I just wanted to check in with my situation - not drive everyone here bonkers voicing the smithereens of my sanity. Sybarite, I'm going to go over some of the questions you asked and process them with what I've learned about him and me and us recently. Thank you again..


Buttercups, if it's any consolation - you aren't coming off as 'being the boss of him' or guilt-tripping anyone into hanging out with you. Right now, you're taking on too much responsibility for managing his feelings; as Persiflager said, I don't think he would spend his nights with you if he didn't want to. If he wanted to hang out with his friends instead one night, he would find a way to let you know that - I don't think you would have to dig very deep. Guys tend to keep things simpler than we expect.
stargazer
QUOTE(sukouyant @ Aug 7 2010, 06:02 PM) *
Thoughts all over the place, like, Is this a conflict about not wanting to move to new york, or is it a meta-conflict about how he really sees me and 'us' and about my insecurities when it comes to that? Is the real leap of faith moving there - or is it leaving this relationship? And wait a minute - why am I the one leaping and hopping all over this thing?


I do not think your thoughts are all over. I think it is really all of the above. It still sounds like you are ambivalent about moving to New York. Did you feel heard in your discussions with Mr. Man on your last trip in NYC?

QUOTE
Anyway, I just wanted to check in with my situation - not drive everyone here bonkers voicing the smithereens of my sanity. Sybarite, I'm going to go over some of the questions you asked and process them with what I've learned about him and me and us recently. Thank you again..


Keep posting here if you need to process these things out in the open. You are not driving us bonkers here. We are here to support you. My heart goes out to you as you sound really upset by this change in your relationship.

(((epi)))

buttercups, is it possible for you to be flexible and understanding that people need some autonomy in their relationships? Nothing wrong with your choice to stay home if you can get over the fact that he wants to see his friends too. His friendships doesn't mean he likes you any less. You do not have to spend every waking moment with him which includes hanging with his friends sometimes. You might want to talk with him. If you keep pushing him away, you might push him out of the relationship. Let us know how things go.
karategrrl
QUOTE(sukouyant @ Aug 8 2010, 12:02 AM) *
Thoughts all over the place, like, Is this a conflict about not wanting to move to new york, or is it a meta-conflict about how he really sees me and 'us' and about my insecurities when it comes to that? Is the real leap of faith moving there - or is it leaving this relationship? And wait a minute - why am I the one leaping and hopping all over this thing? Endless spirals.

Grrl, you may feel like you're spiraling but I think you're uncovering some really great observations in the process. Yes, it for sure DOES sound like you're the one left to make all the compromises and decisions while he sits back. Have you voiced your concerns about the above-mentioned "meta-conflict?" If so, how did he respond?

Also, just thought of another option for you as you sort this out. I don't remember there being any time deadline here. How about if you gave yourself a break from the mental workout. And simultaneously pull back from him. I've learned the "pull-back" technique pretty recently and found it really works. Us ladies tend to be the ones who do all the analyzing, make more gestures of caring, read all the self-help books, seek out counseling, be proactive, etc. while the guys sit back with their feet up. Why? Because we haven't left anything for them to do. You might pull back and be aloof for a bit--don't always answer the phone, go a lot longer than usual without seeing him, don't mention moving for a long while if you always talk about it. Act bored when you talk on the phone. See how he responds; does he reach out to compensate/reconnect, or does he not seem to care or notice?

This may seem like "game-playing," but remember that men "speak" through actions more than women. Speak like a man (through your actions) and take note of his response. He may "speak" volumes in response without saying a word. Whatever happens, it will help you make this most important decision.

Just an idea. Try it--or not. We're behind you. Post all you want.
buttercups
Oh I somehow missed all of your responses in here! Thanks so much everyone for all of your thoughts and suggestions. Persi you are absolutely right and I'm going to try responding next time by saying what you said. I really wouldn't mind hanging out with his friends if they weren't all assholes, and maybe 2 of them are mutual friends but whenever we see them its always in the group of assholes. And try and separate them and a few assholes always find their way in. I guess maybe I do have to stop taking things so personally and like Damona said we don't have to be together all the time. He can go out with the asshats and I'll just see him later.

Before I got to reading all your responses there was last sat night where he invited all of his friends and one of their gfs (who happens to be my best friend- i think shes dating a total racist asshole now but thats another story) to his house to hang out. All they did the entire night was play video games and did not once talk to us ladies or offer another suggestion of something that we could all enjoy. I know they're 25 year old guys so yea they havent grown up yet, but I hate just sitting there feeling completely ignored. My best friend is really passive and trying hard not to piss off her new ass, she says they do this all the time whenever she's there and I know she won't speak up. I decided to a few times and suggested that we all play a game or watch a movie or something else. All i got were a few grunts. I just wish I had known that this was going to happen so that me and my friend wouldnt have started having a few drinks and could have gotten up and driven ourselves somewhere else. I even suggested they let us play the goddamn video game of chicks dressed in bikinis kicking the shit out of each other, but again just a few grunts of "next game". I hate hanging out with these people cause they treat women like shit and its always about what they want to do- god forbid they include the girls. I mean this is just a small, stupid example but there are way worse cases where they are complete sexist assholes. When I mentioned to my bf that he had essentially ignored me all night and shouldn't have invited me in the first place, at first he was all "what??" and then realized I had a point. I just think and hope im done with these people for awhile. nursing school is starting up soon and my friends are going to be back in town so that should help a lot. he can go hang with the douchebags and ill go see them. a little distance might be just what we need even though we dont live together and i work 24/7- thought that was distance enough. ugh men.

Syb how is your situation going? I hope you are getting closer to figuring out the best decision for you.
karategrrl
buttercups, they DO sound like total, complete shitheads. I wouldn't waste another second of your precious life energy in their presence.

I'd love to chain them all to their seats, duct-tape their eyelids open and force them to watch en entire evening of The View reruns, Steel Magnolias and The L Word while I pelted them with tampons. When they whined about when it would end, I'd grunt, "next movie."
buttercups
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH omg Karategrrl that was the most hilarious thing I've ever read in my entire life!!!!
karategrrl
QUOTE(buttercups @ Aug 18 2010, 10:30 PM) *
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH omg Karategrrl that was the most hilarious thing I've ever read in my entire life!!!!

Glad to provide some comic relief. Humor has to one of the best coping mechanisms for asshats, as it saves you stress and renders them powerless over you. Can be difficult to reach that state of detachment, but it's a fun ride when you can.

Maybe if there is a "next time" with that scene, you and the other girl could sit in the corner with some delish-smelling food and wine and snicker, making silly jokes about the bodies, smells, grunts and such of the males present. Childish? Perhaps. Satisfying? Definitely. And it might get them curious. And don't share your goodies, since they didn't share their games. tongue.gif

Alternately, I volunteer to help you carry out my fiendish plan. wink.gif
buttercups
Hahahahahhaha I love it! You are more than welcome to put your fiendish plan into action with me! I'll go out to the store right now and stock up on tampons, you start taping episodes of The View!
karategrrl
QUOTE(buttercups @ Aug 19 2010, 08:07 PM) *
Hahahahahhaha I love it! You are more than welcome to put your fiendish plan into action with me! I'll go out to the store right now and stock up on tampons, you start taping episodes of The View!

It's a deal! wink.gif
stargazer
bump
squirrelgirl88
I'm a worrier. I can't get away from it. I know part of it is genetics and part of it is just being a girl. But, here's the rub: I'm constantly second-guessing my relationship because of these fake worries. I went through a difficult breakup about a year ago and this is my first relationship since. We've been together about two and a half months and things are pretty fantastic.

I'm living the dream here, ladies! I've got a man who's gorgeous, buys me dinner, gives me gifts, loves my cat, takes out out my trash (when I don't ask him to!), and thinks I'm beautiful. And yet, I still worry about our possibility for longevity. We're very different. He's quiet, I'm loud. He likes shoe-gazer emo music and I like indie folk. Before, I've always dated guys who had the exact same interests as me and sometimes things got competitive and boring, like we always knew what the other would say. I like that things with him are a learning process, and sort of unpredictable. What is predictable is his affection for me, the fact that I know he'll always call when he says he will, etc.

I'm applying to graduate programs soon and (hopefully, pending an acceptance) will be moving in about 10 months. I've told him that I want to involve him in my decision but I'm not going to make it based on him. He knows that no matter what, I'm leaving. I think he might want to move with me but I told him I think it's too early to know and we should wait a few months to talk about it.

I've dreamt about a guy like him forever....why am I second-guessing everything. Why can't I just let things evolve organically? Why am I worrying like this?
sageykins
I don't know why you're worrying so much, but I can say you aren't the only one. I do and I can guarantee many of us busties do too. And those who aren't busties smile.gif What I will say is I think it's kind of normal. And you're going through a bunch of future-up-coming changes, so I think you're thinking long term but trying not to get ahead of yourself -maybe?
I think you're being really smart in being up front about school, taking him into consideration, and letting him know where you're at. Differences aren't bad. Differences make your relationship more interesting and gives you the opportunity to see his perspective on the world and helps you see things in another light. It sounds like you have a wonderful man and a joyful time together.
Maybe be grateful for what is at this moment, plan for YOUR personal future and see what happens in the next few months. It is hard to just let go and find peace in what is at this moment. Keep communication open and honest. smile.gif And good luck- the busties are here smile.gif
squirrelgirl88
QUOTE(sageykins @ Aug 23 2010, 05:05 PM) *
I don't know why you're worrying so much, but I can say you aren't the only one. I do and I can guarantee many of us busties do too. And those who aren't busties smile.gif What I will say is I think it's kind of normal. And you're going through a bunch of future-up-coming changes, so I think you're thinking long term but trying not to get ahead of yourself -maybe?
I think you're being really smart in being up front about school, taking him into consideration, and letting him know where you're at. Differences aren't bad. Differences make your relationship more interesting and gives you the opportunity to see his perspective on the world and helps you see things in another light. It sounds like you have a wonderful man and a joyful time together.
Maybe be grateful for what is at this moment, plan for YOUR personal future and see what happens in the next few months. It is hard to just let go and find peace in what is at this moment. Keep communication open and honest. smile.gif And good luck- the busties are here smile.gif


Sagey - I really appreciate this. Your advice really is sage. Hehe. I am so thankful for his presence in my life. I guess I'm just worried that I'm going to get hurt and that this is too good to be true. But, it's been three months and nothing has changed. No negative "true colors" coming through, no ridiculously bad skeletons coming out of closets. I'm the one with skeletons. And I've been completely honest with him. Some of the things I've said have bothered him because, even though he's older, he hasn't been through quite as many relationships, sexual partners, etc. as I have. I like to believe that those bad things help contribute to who we are as people, who we become. They also help us appreciate the good things. Like when you get so sick you can't even hold your head up and your boyfriend washes your hair for you (which he did recently). Thank YOU for making me remember I'm thankful laugh.gif
sageykins
Aw! He sounds awesome- I know it's hard to not worry about getting hurt- how can any of us not worry about that? We've all been hurt and it's a tough thing to just move ahead and live like you've never been hurt.
However, he sounds like a good one. And I hope that he continues to show he is smile.gif Aw- washing your hair! Does he have a brother? smile.gif
And the name- is not because i consider myself wise or 'sage' like by any means- Good God I'm totally the opposite! Most of the time I'm a mess. Hahaha- It's that because of a dog that was once in my life -Sage. smile.gif She was the best pup. Wild Jack Russell- not wise either! hahaha
snarky7
Gosh squirrel....are you and I dating the same man? (talk about worries!) But anyway, I totally am picking up what you're putting down. I've been dating the same guy for a year now, and I'm not sure that worry-feeling really truly goes away. Does it for anyone?

I think my guy, let's call him Julio, is the best a girl could get. Funny, caring, musically-inclined, physically-fit, daring, dark and handsome.... I could keep going, but he's really any woman's dream. Older, yes - fewer partners in his past, yes... cause for worry? I think sometimes.... sigh. I just sometimes feel like he's not as into me as I am into him.

Julio lives 80 miles from me, and that about kills me. I don't quite always know what he does with his free nights (basically every weeknight), but yet we talk on the phone every one of those nights. I can't say he'd have time for anyone else, but there's still that funny feeling.

On more than one occassion, we've argued about our relationship. Usually ending with me pleading for him to talk to me about his feelings because it's usually one of 3 things. He's asked me to be less-involved in my work (I agree with this request) and be more healthy (I am working on this) and that my son needs to be more well-behaved (how the (@#$*) can I control someone else's behavior). Sometimes those three requests make me crazy! I constantly worry about how I might seem to him. Another sigh. Shouldn't I be able to be myself? 4th of July weekend was our last major issue - talk about Independence Day! tongue.gif

He was married for over 20 years before I met him. I once told him he wasn't over his ex. I am really the first woman he's dated besides his ex. Should I be concerned that I'm his rebound? Even a year later? He also has a weird relationship with his adult daughters - I think he should really see them more often but he doesn't make time for them...is the lack of a solid relationship with them a sign as well?

We have talked about him moving here to live with me. But that went nowhere fast. He is sensible and would need a job here first, but I think he could try harder and not leave me to find him suitable employment.

Things have been better the past several weeks however, and I don't want to jinx that by writing all this down. I wanted squirrel to know that you aren't alone in your paranoia. But remember it wouldn't be living if we never took a chance. I just hope we don't get hurt!

Keep us in the know!
Persiflager
Happy Relationship Paranoia

((squirrelgirl and snarky))
snarky7
LOL Pers! tongue.gif
squirrelgirl88
QUOTE(snarky7 @ Aug 24 2010, 02:02 AM) *
Gosh squirrel....are you and I dating the same man? (talk about worries!) But anyway, I totally am picking up what you're putting down. I've been dating the same guy for a year now, and I'm not sure that worry-feeling really truly goes away. Does it for anyone?

I think my guy, let's call him Julio, is the best a girl could get. Funny, caring, musically-inclined, physically-fit, daring, dark and handsome.... I could keep going, but he's really any woman's dream. Older, yes - fewer partners in his past, yes... cause for worry? I think sometimes.... sigh. I just sometimes feel like he's not as into me as I am into him.


Snarky - It's hard to put into words how frustrating it is to know you're in love with someone and still have these doubts. It seems almost psychotic to be worrying so much. And I know I'm not alone -- the other day when we were driving to see a movie, I brought up something about my grad school search and he does this thing every time he's thinking hard and wants to say what he's thinking. I can read him very easily. So I ask, "What's on your mind?" and he says, "I guess I just have doubts." I told him that everyone does, especially when they're adjusting to an idea as new as "my girlfriend is going to move in 10 months - will I be moving with her or not?" I also told him that most likely, these things would work themselves out in time. But mostly, I was saying this to remind myself that I have goals, wants and needs, apart from him. I need to do this for myself and even though I want us to figure things out together, I'm still going to charge on ahead as if he's not coming with me.

Is it wrong of me to be scared about moving away with someone? I barely started living on my own before he started sleeping over, randomly taking out my trash, doing house-husbandy things. I'm so scared...
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