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maddy29
me too-about the nagging, i'm his mom feeling. i hear myself and i can't STAND it, but he just shuts down and doesn't communicate and it drives me fucking nuts! i don't want to be the mom in the relationship, and i don't want him to be the kid, that's just weird. i see my mom and dad do the same dynamic-mom asks dad to do something, dad doesnt' respond. mom starts nagging, dad shuts down and is quiet and angry seeming. mom nags more, nag nag nag nag, until my dad gets mad and then they yell a bit.

it's like DAD just fucking do it! geez! or at least say "no, i'm not going to do that, tough shit." so she'll stop nagging!

but now i understand my mom, sadly. with my dude it's not about him not doing enough, more just about communication in general. like, i'll say "where are we going?" and he WON'T ANSWER. i have to nag nag and he gets all pissy and i'm like hello!!! you are driving and i'm not psychic! i just like to know where we're going, i don't think that's SO much to ask.

y'all are getting me all riled up smile.gif
ms.gb
maddy i understand completely....***gives a big bustie hug****

thanks for letting me vent.
pepper
my aunt told me this funny thing one time, she said that if she asks her husband "can" he do something for her he gives her total attitude but if she asks if he "will" do something for her he just goes and does it nearly every time. now that's weird.
it's about the power dynamic, like asking him where we're going implies a questioning of his decision making abilities or judgement or whatever. or it's like he's doing something and you're trying to take over control. that's weird too but i wonder if he'd give a different reaction to the same query phrased a little differently. like "where are you taking me?" still keeps the power in his court so to speak.

i can't get a phone call to apprise me of plans. it's ridiculous, considering the fact that i'm the one at home planning meals for the family and activities. if i just did whatever needed to be done and left him out of it he'd be pissed, but asking for a phone call to let me know when he'll arrive is treating him like a 14 year old apparently.
we had a big fight about this the other day with mucho yelling and cursing on his part and bringing up every grievance he's ever had instead of focussing on the non-calling discussion. he actually got pretty ugly, it was a bit unreal.
roseviolet
Pepper, your story about your uncle reminded me of one of my biggest annoyances with my mom. She has this tendency to say, "Wouldn't it be nice if ...". For example, "Wouldn't it be nice if somebody switched over the laundry for me?" or "Wouldn't it be nice if somebody swept the front porch?" Drove me INSANE as a kid. Still does. And it doesn't work at ALL! Most of the time we just ignore her or say, "Yup," and just sit there. The statement doesn't require a response & it's so damn passive it's maddening! I far prefer it when she just asks us out-right to do something.

However, I agree that your uncle is just playing the grammar police with his wife. Is he s stickler for proper grammar and word usage all the time or just when his wife wants him to do something?

As for the phone calls, does your partner come home at a different time every night? If so, then you definitely deserve a phone call, if for no other reason than so you can plan the evening meal accordingly. The benefit he receives far outweighs the effort required to make a phone call. It isn't about you mothering him & stalking him, it's just the basic consideration required from any relationship.
grenadine
pepper, sorry about the big fight. maybe you could tell him that if he doesn't want to call you before coming the drawbridge might be up. seriously...since you two have separate households, it's only common courtesy. geez.

i fear i have become a near constant nagger, although i THINK i usually don't (at least initially) sound like i'm nagging. i've realised that the mister is much better with periodic chores (e.g. weekly garbage) than routine maintenance, so i'm making a list. he'll accept it because he knows how important it is (to me and in terms of having a safe environment for the 1-year-old).
pepper
rose, he has no idea she's even doing it. it just plays on that subtle power balance with a little simple language manipulation and she swears it works like a charm. it's not like what your mom does, it more when she's asking him to do something anyhow. like instead of "honey could you please fix that broken..." she says "honey would you please fix that broken..." and where he would have argued before he just does it. she's had large conflict resolution training and is big on "i messages" though so she's like the uber communicator.

as for the phone calls, this was happenING (yes, more than once despite polite requests with explanations about why it's important to me re: dinner, activities, kid stuff) while he was briefly staying at my house prior to leaving on a trip. it would have been really tough to kick him right out but i was severly tempted. gren, his visitation rights to our house have been seriously curtailed. some really ignorant things came out of his mouth at a high volume. that's just too much.
i said the very thing you girls said about basic consideration and common courtesy but he was being beyond unreasonable about it.

the funny thing is that i'm NOT a nag, i really believe in letting people dig their own graves. but i don't think i'll ever live with or tie my life to another person on a level that i can't keep from affecting me so much so... it's a bit different than living together in my situation. i'm so particular about my space, i can't imagine anyone in it making a mess or bitching about my explosion of arts and crafts that sometimes takes right over the whole house. i mean, i even put the silverware away in a certain order. of course there's a reason for that as it takes some doing to fit everything into my barbie sized kitchen but when people see me rearranging the cutlery they've just put away they always think that i'm crazy.
can you imagine a man in my space? ha ha ha! not one over four feet tall anyhow. ha ha.
ellenevenstar
When it's stuff that has the potential to turn into nagging and which doesn't really affect me so much, I ask at the beginning, for example, "You know you really need to call your mum some time this weekend. Do you want me to keep nagging you about it every so often when I remember, or do you want me to shut up about it?" That way, when it does pop into my head, I can remind him knowing that he actually wants me to = not nagging!!

When it's stuff that does affect me (like if every plate in the house is waiting to be washed up by him) it's a different story, though. I'm pretty good at straight-out asking him to do his share when it's not happening anyway, but the reaction I get is either attitude and face-pulling or 'not-right-now-you're-so-uptight'. I am definitely going to try your aunt's method, pepper!

I find it helpful to remember that he is not me and his mind works in different ways! He doesn't really seem to connect that when he chooses not to do a neccessary task, he is making it something that I have to do. He is just choosing not to do it at that moment, and it kind of stops there in his mind, I think. He doesn't not do things because he thinks I should.

*

I am trying really hard to not be like my mum who STILL doesn't just ASK for stuff, like yesterday mum & dad were in town and I was sitting in the back of their car and it was really hot and the aircon wasn't on yet and mum was just like, huffing and sighing and pulling faces instead of just frickin asking for dad to turn it on!!! When I was growing up & living at home, she would just start banging doors and slamming pots in the kitchen instead of asking us for help. She thinks subconsciously (as do I sometimes, but it's just not PRACTICAL!) that she shouldn't have to ask for help, that people should just perceive what she thinks needs doing and do it. I have talked to her about this and she said she knows it's stupid and that she inherited this habit from her own mother so I am doing my darnedest to break that little tradition!
sybarite
OMG this stuff drives me nuts. I would say I don't nag; the mister would say I do, despite what feels to me my superhuman efforts to not point out the mess he leaves everywhere. We simply have different standards of cleanliness, and I thought mine were pretty relaxed until I started living with him.

The ongoing merry-go-round of seeing his mess, resenting his mess and finally asking him to clear his mess wore me down, so these days I just clean it myself for the most part. On his part, he occasionally spontaneously cleans around the house and he certainly does the bulk of the cooking. However, he is not as tied to regular mealtimes as I am, so when I used to rely on him to make dinner (after he said he would that evening) I'd be waiting until 10pm sometimes, which is too late for me.

So these days, to be honest, I spend less time at home during the working week. I spend all day and most evenings at my office, where the space is all mine and I can eat when I need to. Probably a drastic response but spending my energy negotiating dinnertime and watching him make a mess seems a waste of time right now.

This all does make me angry. However, I also agree with nickclick's point way below, where she says (more or less) that if messiness is the worst thing about him, it could be worse. My mister is smart as a whip, very loving, shares my values almost completely and is generally proactive about everything from his work to suggestions for mine, and is great at arranging long-haul trips--so basically I can (just about) suck up the domestic stuff.

Whew! Methinks this topic is touching a nerve for many of us?!
auralpoison
OMG, those passive agressive mommy games! Roseviolet, I feel your pain! My mom would ask *me* if I thought my dad would do something or she'd ask the *dog* if he thought I'd do whatever for her like we weren't sitting there. We both just started to ignore her, which just pissed her off, but she was so used to repression she just stomped around the house like a nine year old rather than say, "I need you to..." The banging of the pots & pans, the whole big production. I now understand why my dad took me fishing with him on the weekends even though I hated it. It was better than listening to my mom nag us both.

I'm a lunatic about certain aspects of my space, but we maintain our own residences & he's a total neat freak about his, where I only focus on certain specific things in mine. It's my OCD, I think. EG: He brought me groceries since I've been crippled & it exasperates him that I won't let him put things away because I have a very specific order to how it's done. I hate washing dishes, but I won't let him do them because he doesn't do them the "right" way. Of course, every now & again he will mention that he's stepped over the same pile of dirty laundry in my bedroom three times, I generally remark that it hasn't kept him out of my bed. Touche. At his place, you wouldn't even know I existed except for the bath & bedroom. He went from having soap & a bottle of 2in1 shampoo to having two body washes, two body creams, shaving cream, three shampoos, conditioner, creme rinse, three facial soaps, toothbrush/paste, extra razors, loofah gloves, & a pumice stone. I have a drawer & some closet space in the bedroom. It's weird. If we're at my place, I toss my clothes willnilly to be worried about in the morning, at his I make sure things hit the hamper because I know I'll get the look if I don't. But my full blown take over of the shower warrants not even a bat of the eye... We're an obsessive compulsive match.
maddy29
it's funny, cause my dude is the neat one. we don't live together yet, but i know that i'll have to clean up my act a bit...he's very neat, and orderly. he definitely likes things in their own special place. he even does dishes at my house, like my roommates dishes, because it drives him nuts. and he'll sweep the floor at my place, rake the yard, etc. he LIKES it-which to me is so weird. but, i do love living in a neater cleaner place.

i think that when we live together, the fights and annoyance is gonna be about us just driving each other crazy from spending so much time together. although who knows!
nickclick
ugh, my mom did/does that all the time - waited until someone offered to clean and threw hissyfits when noone did (within like 10 minutes). she's actually skipped going away with my aunt on long weekends because when she'd return my dad would not take the initiative to make the bed or do dishes while she was gone. instead of enjoying a vacation and just cleaning when she returned, she would sit home and sulk. duh!

my mom's always done everything for my dad, but when he would half-assed-ly try to wash dishes or do laundry, she wouldn't like the way he did it (ie - not her way). now she's suprised when he can't operate the microwave or match his pants to his shirt. it's like she has a dependant child for the rest of her life.

i vowed never to be like her with my SO in this regard. i'll ask for help when it's not coming and ask for more when it's a shitty job. but it's another example of a woman having to bend her behavior around a man's, but i dunno another solution, and shit needs to get cleaned.
ellenevenstar
QUOTE
but it's another example of a woman having to bend her behavior around a man's


YEAH, & I guess for most people, the idea is that "he is helping me" to do whatever the chore is.... not that "we are doing this chore together" or, god forbid, that "I am helping him".

Although my mum plays games, it's not as bad being there as at my in-laws'. When we visit, mother-in-law and I do EVERYTHING (she asks me for help over her own spouse / offspring) and the boys (SO, his 2 brothers + dad) just sit around drinking beer. I HATE it. Reasonably early on, I made it very clear to SO that I did not find this acceptable, so he bravely gets up to 'help us' occasionally, but it fucking boils my blood. My father-in-law is like your dad, nickclick. Can't do a thing for himself except bet on horses & go to golf. Oh, he is a mad barbeque-er though.
auralpoison
I have always tried so hard not to fall into the behaviours shown to me by a lot of my older female relatives relationship-wise. From waiting on a man hand & foot, to playing ridiculous word games, to having babies that my body can't handle, to nagging like a bitch harpie from hell.

My Da waited on my Mom, actually, correction, he made me wait on my Mom while she ran MAD game on him. I had to get up early on Saturdays to kipe the CC bills so he wouldn't see them, she'd have me hide his things that she didn't like (Clothes, music, ugly biker jewelry, etc,) she'd buy new clothes/jewelry & pretend that she'd had them forever. How fucked up is it to get a nine year old involved in your deception? It's not like my dad didn't know (He lived in denial, though.) what she was doing, he just accepted it. She was gonna do what she was gonna do & she couldn't be forced to do anything. As long as she didn't try to "change" him, he didn't care. She let him have his porn, motorbikes, comic books, fishing jones, guns, & illusion of control.

My white Gran lived in what I liked to call "Grandmaland," where reality just didn't exist. It was her way or the highway & her OCD made the rest of us look totally normal. We'd drive up, have lunch & plan on leaving by five. At least two people would have to distract her after lunch so the rest of us would get some peace. They'd get her out of the house & we would dive in like mad maids. By the time I was sixteen I had the whole clan running like a well-oiled, let's get the hell away from Gran ASAP machine. I knew all of her little quirks. Don't put the knives in the dishwasher, cottage cheese needs to be stored upside down, this goes to the dogs, this goes into the freezer, linens need to be washed immediately & be put back into the appropriate seasonal drawer, yadda yadda yadda. She was psychotic, but it worked for her.

I find the fact that my black Gran waits on my Grandad disturbing, but I also understand the hierarchy of my family. She speaks softly & carries a big stick. Actually, a switch or an extension cord suit her better. She's the one to go to because in reality she makes all the decisions. It's like the grammar police thing. It's all how she asks or suggests, rather. They've been together for more than fifty years & my gran knows how to work my Grandad like a cheap Thai hooker.

I think that since both HB & I are such shitty liars kinda helps. We'd both know if the other was bullshitting, so it's easier to just compromise & try to say things with tact. There have been a few communication errors that we take 50/50 responsibility for, but they are few & far between. I don't have to work him. I admit I was peeved that he didn't want to do Turkey Day, but I *understood* why. Was I happy about it? No. But then I thought about all the stuff he's wanted to drag me to that I begged off on. I can't help it. I just don't like golf or birdwatching... one evening was a willing sacrifice & afterward, I knew he'd have been miserable. We all got hammered & played games all night.
go_kayte
So my boy and I had a talk about the future last night... I was telling him about my frustration that there is very little demand for my skills in our area and told him some of the cities where I know I could get a good job in my field (dsp/audio electrical engineering) like new york, miami, chicago, other big cities. He told me basically, where I go he'll go too. It's a huge relief, and very exciting. I know it might be hard for him at first, especially if it takes him a while to find a job, to let me be the breadwinner because I've been in school pretty much the whole time we've been together and he's been supporting me. I'm graduating either in may or august and then we're going to go where I can have a career! His only stipulation was that he doesn't want to live in california or any small town, which is fine with me because I don't either. I'm just so happy that he's willing to move with me. biggrin.gif
nickclick
go_k, congrats and good luck!
lucizoe
congrats, go_kayte!

*waves at AP* So, did you ever come to NYC and I just like, missed you or something? I am deeply hurt if this is the case. Deeply.

I have been trying really really hard not to be a nag lately. In terms of household chores, we share cluttery behavior, but my tolerance for it runs out before his does. I honestly don't think he has a limit, frankly. A room that is driving me crazy doesn't even register on his radar. If I mention it he does his part, but I sometimes resent having to ask as it makes me feel like I'm nagging, even though I'm really not. Does that make any sense? The dynamic is even more skewed towards me doing all the housework since I'm not working or going to school right now (I have got to rectify that soon as I am going stir-crazy and focusing way too much on the cat hair). I somehow manage NOT to get that much done during the day, regardless.

Getting in the way back machine, if I could change something about him it would be the procrastination. He just completely forgets to do things. He was in a really shitty financial state when I met him because of his forgetting to pay bills, putting off parking tickets, etc. and we've since worked that out, with me pushing him. He doesn't take things as seriously as I do, which I normally adore, since I'm just a big ball of anxiety. It's a nice balance usually, but some things one shouldn't be cavalier about, you know? It's a good thing neither of us wants to have a kid; he'd forget it somewhere and I would go nuts. wink.gif

sassygrrl
Yay Kayte!

I too am not trying to be a nag. For one thing, I don't live at Mcgeek's house yet. He's at least trying to clean up the kitchen. And, I try to clean up the den when I'm there. I really don't know his system for putting away shit yet, so I'd be all bugging him.

I was proud to know last weekend I got a drawer of my own. That made me quite happy. smile.gif

His divorce became final as of this Monday. I found a picture of her finally. It's not that I was snoping, but it was one his computer. She's coming by on Saturday to pick up some of her stuff.

I've decided to go back to grad school. I just now have to figure out where and in what. He seems to be very supportive.

Right now, he's always bitching about being in debt. Yet, every time we go out he pulls out his credit card. ???? However, when I offer to pay, he doesn't let me.

I also have to keep in mind that I was sassy way before him. He has this couple that are good friends that are similar to the smug marrieds in Bridget Jones Diary. This guy is totally p-whipped. We had a really embarrasing scenario at Turkey Day, where some distant relative called me "his wife." I couldn't answer anything. Then, this couple (just to throw more salt in my wounds!) screamed: "We're married!!!!" I wanted to throw a pumpkin pie at them. It's mainly the wife that annoys me. The husband just sat there the whole night and stared at my tits.

We got into another fight this morning about my family, and the fact that's not "in my family." Which really pissed me off. I know my family is fucked up, but he thinks b/c he's met them once, that it's over with.

Of course, he doesn't even talk to his family. I'm wondering if part of this stems for this? And the divorce as well?

Sorry for the long post!






sidecar
If anything, my mister is a bit of a nag. It's more like...there are things that need to be done regularly, such as unloading and loading the dishwasher, or making the bed, and I just do them sometimes. Whereas he feels the need to announce whenever he does any housework, as if it's a special occasion. When I (rarely) leave the house without making the bed or don't turn over the dishes, he gets very passive-aggressive about it. And I'm like, "Dude, I do housework all the time, I just don't feel compelled to inform you when I do stuff. Do you think the fridge and the kitchen counters clean themselve?"

He also has a tendency to glance at the refridgerator, not see what he's after, and ask me to come find it for him. I finally told him that he needs to look in the back if he doesn't see it right away, that I can't drop everything and find lemons for him, when the lemons are just in the bottom of the crisper.

But really, if that's the worst of it ... I'm pretty lucky. My dad flat-out refused to wash dishes, do laundry, or even put it away since my moms was a SAHM, and he worked all the time. I understand that when one person's at home and the other works, the homemaker should do more of the housework, but I remember once she was out of town visiting her parents, and he got mad at me for not putting his socks in his sock drawer. She went back to work, eventually, and she still did all the housework. And I don't think I could put up with that.
nickclick
i remember a few years ago while visiting my newlywed friends seeing a his/hers list of chores on their fridge and thinking how structured and lame they were. but now after living with a few guys and roommates i see the logic. still lame tho.
go_kayte
QUOTE(lucizoe @ Dec 14 2006, 05:42 PM) *


I have been trying really really hard not to be a nag lately. In terms of household chores, we share cluttery behavior, but my tolerance for it runs out before his does. I honestly don't think he has a limit, frankly. A room that is driving me crazy doesn't even register on his radar. If I mention it he does his part, but I sometimes resent having to ask as it makes me feel like I'm nagging, even though I'm really not. Does that make any sense? The dynamic is even more skewed towards me doing all the housework since I'm not working or going to school right now (I have got to rectify that soon as I am going stir-crazy and focusing way too much on the cat hair). I somehow manage NOT to get that much done during the day, regardless.




Holy crap, this is me and my boy exactly! It also drives me crazy that he thinks absolutely nothing of just putting things in the middle of the floor. I almost broke my foot stepping on an ashtray he had decided to just set down right in the middle of the floor. WTF?! I tried to make a rule but so far haven't had a lot of luck. It's like his brain doesn't recognize appropriate places to put things, like tables and shelves, of which we have plenty. Crazy boys and their messiness.
pinkmartyr
i am feeling glad because this is the first holiday where we have been able to support one another when it comes to family drama, instead of trying to defend our crazy mothers. the downside is that we only got about an hour alone together to celebrate the holiday. i have suggested going away for christmas next year, and for the first time, he hasn't said no right away! we are sharing our frustrations, talking about it, and working together, because we have gotten a lot more realistic when it comes to family problems around here.
maddy29
hey all-my boy and i are moving in together this summer, and we're both nervous-both pretty cautious about this stuff. i'm wondering if anyone has tips or advivce? stuff we should talk about/decide before moving in? issues that may come up? things you wished you had known? i've never lived wtih anyone, and he lived briefly with an ex but it was really bad and led to their breakup, so we're both nervous about it. any thoughts?
ms.gb
bills....money usually kills a relationship if handled improperly...make sure all is clear about this...who's in charge of what...even steven..yada yada...

also....you'll probably have two of everything. store or toss depending on the state of your relationship...and also....never assume. assuming is one of the best argument starters ever. just my 2 cents.
sybarite
Decide on how the bills will be split and paid before moving in. Make up your minds if you want to split everything 50/50 or if whoever's earning more should pay more. Then decide how you want to pay bills: the first of every month? As they come in? etc etc. When deciding this, keep in mind how you are both paid, when your paycheck comes through each month, so you can match your payments with your cash flow.

Talk about chores, who will do what, and what levels of tidiness you each need. To be fair, this will be largely academic until you are actually in situ. You may have very different ideas of 'clean', which can affect everything from how often you each think the place needs to be vacumned to dishwashing methods.

For my mister and I, a lot of this was learned by trial and error, and really observing each other's day to day routine. There are so many areas we disagree on, from what to watch on TV to how often the sheets should be changed to what time we want to go to bed to whether one person can read in bed while the other sleeps. (Actually we agree on that last one. The answer is no.)

In the end, these disagreements don't matter too much because we give each other space. Every couple is different and you'll figure it out as you go along.

We fought like cat and dog for at least the first 6 months--but we're each really stubborn and we're used to our own ways, as we're both in our 30s. You learn to pick your battles.

Living together, and going through the above, will bring you closer. Try to be patient with the process and prepare for a few speed bumps. It evens out as you get used to it and each other. Good luck!
maddy29
thanks, i[m 30 and he's 32, and we've both been living with roommates forever, so we're both pretty set in our ways, but at the same time, used to not getting our way because of roommates...

money is definitely a biggie-we've talked about that, we won't have a joint account, we'll split everything 50/50, we pretty much make the same amount, so that won't be an issue. i think the difficulties will be in stuff like grocery shopping, eating out-who is spending money on that, etc.

we are getting a two bedroom, so hopefully that'll help us have our own space. it's going to be weird. i just can't even imagine living together, it's funny.

thanks! smile.gif
sidecar
Yeah, money's the big one. Our biggest problem is that when I moved in with Martini, I had no income, and when I got a job a few months later, I made about half of what he does. I now make, uh, slightly more than half; our income disparity is in the tens of thousands.

For us, the key was to stop thinking about it in terms of my money but as "our money." We pool it together and we pay our bills first, and we check in with each other if we're making major purchases. We haven't worked it out entirely, but for a long time, I felt very guilty whenever I spent money on anything because I wasn't contributing enough. Also, I have a lot of student loans, so when we did have separate accounts (up until the second year we were married), after I paid my loans, I'd have, like, $50 to get me through a week, while he would have $400 in his account. The truth is, even though they are my loans, they are a financial burden to both of us. If he won $1 million, it's not like he wouldn't pay off my loans with part of it, you know?

Once we started thinking of our money together and including a financial partnership as part of our relationship, money got a lot easier to handle.

the other difficulty is having space for yourself. I moved into his place, with all of his decorations and stuff, and the second bedroom was his office--I didn't feel like there was any space that was just mine, even for, like, my notecards or computer software! I felt like it was his house that I was living in, rather than ours. So it is important to share things but you need to carve out some stuff for you, too.

But once you have that worked out ... it's really nice to wake up next to the person you love every morning. It's nice to be sharing a life all the time, rather than just for three hours every couple days.
laurenann
money has been really bumming out my relationship lately.

my boyfriend has owed me money for over a year - i loaned him like $1,000 to pay first and last on our new apartment about a year ago, then our cat had a big hospital bill, i bought plane tickets on my credit card, and he'll pay back some and then need more, so right now he owes me about $1400. he just gave me $300 and my new years resolution was to not loan him any more money, because it made me resentful and bitter.

he was unemployed for a while, but got a new job last year and promised he'd pay me back and then pay for my groceries and stuff like i did for him when he was out of work. that has not happened. he is pay check to pay check just like i am, only i make half of what he does.

we wanted to go out last night, and he was like "oh, i can use my credit card," and i was like "um, you really shouldn't charge things you don't need to," and he snapped back "well, you TOOK all my money" - no, he PAID HIS BILLS FINALLY. so now he, what, resents ME for putting my foot down and making him pay me back? he wanted to buy new skis, so he maxed out his credit cards and is now mad that i am mad that he isn't gonna be able to use his tax refund to pay me all of the money he owes me.

i feel like i have disrupted the balance of our relationship, and he is NOT happy that i am making him be responsible for his debt to me. i guess he got used to me being a pushover and an enabler, and maybe he can't handle me now calling him out on his horrible money habits.

so now, i am pissed every time he spends his money because all i can think about is how that should be my money, and how he should be taking care of me like he said he would, especially after i helped him out when he was poor and in school.

hrmph. so i guess, don't loan money to your roomate-boyfriend.
GoGoMassacre
I moved in with my boyfriend(and his mother mellow.gif ) about 7 months ago and have been living with them since. We're young. I'm 19 and he just turned 20 a few months back. We've been together for almost 3 years and have been through ALOT of falling outs. Our relationship has finally been rebuilding and is at the absolute best it's ever been. But problem: His mother. She causes so much stress between the two of us. Before I moved in here, my bf was basically her bitch. Whatever she'd say for him to do, he'd do wether he agreed or not. Would agree with her on outlandish things just to avoid drama, as she hates to be disagreed with. She did his laundry, made his food, kept track of his checkbook and reciepts and he had to kiss her goodnight everynight before bed. No one wants to see their boyfriend as this much of a mommas boy. No one.
And since I moved in, he's grown up ALOT. He opened up his own bank account that his mom doesn't have access too(since she takes all his money and pays her bills and debts with it), though she doesn't know about this account and he's too afraid to tell her. I'll do his laundry for him since I'm still unemployed and am home all day. He'll stand up to her or question some of the things she says to him. He's getting alot better.
But she isn't. She is crazy. She thinks I'm corrupting him and turning him against her. In a way, I am, because before I moved in, no one else was there to notice how pathetic it all was. She's had many INSANE breakdowns because he'll say "Just a minute" when she asks him to take out the trash. That incident led up to her screaming at him for 20 minutes about how disrespectful he is and how she never thought he'd treat her this way. The next day she told me that the only way she'd be happy is if I went home(across the country).
She's put a huge strain on our relationship, and other than her, it's the best it's ever been. We've almost broken up several times over this. Plus we're in San Diego and it's basically impossible to move out at this age in this shithole city and my boyfriend is too afraid to move out of state for fear of what his mom may do.

Advice?
girlygirlgag
Well, you are VERY young to be so serious, and you live with his mother. 20 is not an odd age for a guy to still have his mom cooking and cleaning up after him.

Mother issues need to be treated very delicately. Maybe you need to spend some qualtiy time with her?

The thing is, you may or may not be with him down the road, but she always gonna be his mama.
GoGoMassacre
Yeah I know that. I've tried spending time with her and it doesn't work out well. He's become completely tired of his mother and is getting a job at the post office so hopefully we'll be moved out 6 months from now.

I know we're young. It's funny that people always say that, as though young people can't want and have what people 10 years older than them want. We've been together almost 3 years and have grown together as opposed to apart like most people do as they get older. I see us going some where and he even bought me an engagement ring once right before we had a falling out when he decided to start taking some illegal sports performance enhancing drugs. So he seems to see it going somewhere too. But we've since discussed that we want to take all that stuff slow and just work out growing up a bit more and seeing where that takes us.
go_kayte
GoGo, my boyfriend and I have experienced everyone telling us we're too young. We started dating when I was 16 and he was 18. Now we're 22 & 24. We went through people giving us tons of awful terrible advice. You just gotta do what is right for you in the end, even while taking other peoples' advice into consideration. I lived in my own apartment (not his) from 17-19 before we moved in together. Even then everyone told me it was too soon.

Personally, if I were in your situation, I would be working to get my OWN apartment, away from him and then AFTER he works out his issues with his mom maybe he can move in with you.
GoGoMassacre
Yeah though in San Diego there is NO way I could afford to live on my own and I know he'd spend all his time at the apartment if I had one and all that. And I told him that if I ever do get a job or find a roommate I would move out with or without him. And I've suggested he try to work things out with his mother. He says it's a lost cause because she's always been like this. She's near 50, lonely, and thinks I'm stealing her baby away from her. He's had many talks with her about it and it never ends good. He's just completely tired of babying her and he wants out.

She's a hard woman and my dislike of her has grown to hate. I'm just hoping things somehow work themselves out and she can grow up a little bit too. She's extremely childish when it comes to being a mother, which is so ironic. I guess growing up, my bf would try to spend the night at a friends and she'd call and beg him to come home. She's nuts. He was like 10.
girlygirlgag
I comment on your age, because not only are you young, but you are unable to house yourselves as a couple and have to rely on her. This puts a lot of stress on your guys as a couple and her as a parent. Also, I say you are young, because the adult thing to do is sit all of you down to talk it out. Like I said, you are 19, he is 20, when he is 30, you may or may not be around, but she will be.

I mean, the two of you are experiencing conflict over who is going to do his laundry. ( I wouldn't let her do it, nor would I and I would make him do his own damn laundry.) It sounds like a struggle of two women for Alpha positioning. You are in her house, like it or not, she is the alpha, and you are going to have to back off a bit, which is frustrating and stressful, but that is the deal.

Maturity comes with experience. Experience comes with age. If you guys were at your height of maturity you wouldn't be depending on her for anything. Becoming mature, is you stepping up to the plate to work this out. If she is unwilling, I would find another place to stay until you guys can afford a new place, because nothing but BAD BAD BAD will happen if you remain. Plus, you don't need to do put that stress on yourself.

She may be crazy, but you are living in her house, not paying rent (or at least comparable rent or y'all would have your own place), and you have to respect that. Animosity between the two of you is unhealthy and bad for your relationship with her son.
dusty
I disagree, and I'm older than GGG, hee.

I do think it is an impossible situation and the sooner you move out, the better. But I also think that if there is any hope for the relationship, he is going to have to gain some independence from his mother.
roseviolet
Well, I think the mother's behavior sounds very strange. I mean, he can't even tell her that he has his own bank account? That is truly bizarre. His mother is showing signs that she does not want him to leave - that she doesn't even want him to have some of the basic skills needed in living life as an adult. Based on what you've said, it sounds like she kinda expects her son to fill the role that a partner would normally have in her life. So obviously she sees you as a threat. How long has she been single, GoGo? Where is your boyfriend's father? Does the mother ever date? Is she in another relationship now? If not, when did her last relationship end?

GoGo, are you paying a share of the bills? Since you aren't working, it sounds like you may not be able to make a finacial contribution. That is certain to make the situation a LOT worse because it gives his mother even more power than she already has.

My advice: Get a job as soon as possible & find a place to live. Do you have any friends who are living on their own? Because they should be able to give great advice. You may not be able to live in the city or as comfortably as you do now, but there has to be something. Move out to the suburbs if you have to. Get a place with friends if you have to. But get out!

And if your boyfriend wants to move out with you, so be it. He is an adult now and eventually adults are supposed to move out of their parents homes. His mother needs to accept this. It's all a part of growing up. But understand that he may not be ready to do that necessary growing! He may chose to stay with her. But if he moves in with you, make sure he is doing his share of the work! I see no problem with you doing laundry and cooking if he has a job and you don't, but if you're both working outside the home, then you're both working inside the home, too. Teach him how to wash his clothes & cook. Teach him what his mother won't. And then expect him to use that knowledge! Don't let him turn you into his mother.

SanDiegoApartments.com
SanDiegoRenter.com
SanDiegoJobs.com
SignOnSanDiego.com
And there are a lot more resources out there.
GoGoMassacre
QUOTE(roseviolet @ Jan 22 2007, 12:36 PM) *

Well, I think the mother's behavior sounds very strange. I mean, he can't even tell her that he has his own bank account? That is truly bizarre. His mother is showing signs that she does not want him to leave - that she doesn't even want him to have some of the basic skills needed in living life as an adult. Based on what you've said, it sounds like she kinda expects her son to fill the role that a partner would normally have in her life. So obviously she sees you as a threat. How long has she been single, GoGo? Where is your boyfriend's father? Does the mother ever date? Is she in another relationship now? If not, when did her last relationship end?

GoGo, are you paying a share of the bills? Since you aren't working, it sounds like you may not be able to make a finacial contribution. That is certain to make the situation a LOT worse because it gives his mother even more power than she already has.

My advice: Get a job as soon as possible & find a place to live. Do you have any friends who are living on their own? Because they should be able to give great advice. You may not be able to live in the city or as comfortably as you do now, but there has to be something. Move out to the suburbs if you have to. Get a place with friends if you have to. But get out!

And if your boyfriend wants to move out with you, so be it. He is an adult now and eventually adults are supposed to move out of their parents homes. His mother needs to accept this. It's all a part of growing up. But understand that he may not be ready to do that necessary growing! He may chose to stay with her. But if he moves in with you, make sure he is doing his share of the work! I see no problem with you doing laundry and cooking if he has a job and you don't, but if you're both working outside the home, then you're both working inside the home, too. Teach him how to wash his clothes & cook. Teach him what his mother won't. And then expect him to use that knowledge! Don't let him turn you into his mother.

SanDiegoApartments.com
SanDiegoRenter.com
SanDiegoJobs.com
SignOnSanDiego.com
And there are a lot more resources out there.



Thanks for all this. I agree, as does my boyfriend, that it does seem like she wants him to fill the role that a partner would, as creepy as that sounds. She has been single for quite sometime, I believe for 10+ years, she's never been married and my bf's father is married to the woman he met after her. She never dates, or leaves the house AT ALL after she gets home from work. She's obese and doesn't like people to see her.

I do little odd jobs around town, like temporary work, which is all I can seem to find. So I help out whenever I can, even if all I can afford for that week is to buy dinner for everyone. I clean around the house and do dishes and water the lawn and whatever I can.

I don't do my boyfriends laundry always. He likes doing his own laundry since I taught him how so he'll do it most of the time, but if I'm doing my laundry I'll sometimes do his as well. He cooks his own food now too (only if his mom isn't home at the time) and he balances the checkbook for his "secret" account. And he is usually the one to clean up our room(which is like a big studio apartment that takes up the whole upstairs). He doesn't expect me to be his little housewife or anything at all. So I think if he and I were to move out on our own, it'd be a fair thing. I'm just REALLY looking for a job right now, because I feel like I'm definitly holding us back from moving out but it's extremely hard because I don't have my car out here yet and people don't think I'd be able to make it in and such.

Thanks alot for the links, by the way.
punkerplus
Hey GoGo,

I'm not exactly in the same situation as you, but I am 19 and in a serious relationship (although my boyfriend is 24 and not living with his mum *phew*). I don't have any other advice than what has already been given, but I just wanted to say that being of the same age and "commited" status, we should probably share tips and ideas from time to time tongue.gif I sound like we're chef's or something!

But really, I mean I more have problems with judging myself to be too young! I guess I want to argue with myself before other people can!
stillveryangry
Anyone ever have their boyfriend work like wayyy too much and not have time for them?? It's not even an issue of fidelity- he's starting his own consulting firm and his damn partner still has his day job so that leaves my guy to meet with clients...and since it's new and hectic, stuff is always coming up, etc...

I understand that new businesses take a lot of time, but do you think it would be worth it to be with him when he can't uh...actually really be with me, or to just stop seeing him, at least until things stabilize? My personal feelings make me want to do the latter, but he is a good guy (rare occurrance in my existence). What would you do?
girlygirlgag
QUOTE(stillveryangry @ Jan 24 2007, 03:01 AM) *

Anyone ever have their boyfriend work like wayyy too much and not have time for them?? It's not even an issue of fidelity- he's starting his own consulting firm and his damn partner still has his day job so that leaves my guy to meet with clients...and since it's new and hectic, stuff is always coming up, etc...

I understand that new businesses take a lot of time, but do you think it would be worth it to be with him when he can't uh...actually really be with me, or to just stop seeing him, at least until things stabilize? My personal feelings make me want to do the latter, but he is a good guy (rare occurrance in my existence). What would you do?



How long have you been together? Do you see a future with him?
stillveryangry
QUOTE(girlygirlgag @ Jan 24 2007, 03:16 PM) *

How long have you been together? Do you see a future with him?


Not anymore! We're only "dating" now, seeing as he is feeling like things are moving too fast...even though I haven't seen him in two weeks and he only lives 20 minutes away. Anyway, I didn't totally break it off with him, I just suggested that we see other people. And when I say we, I mean me biggrin.gif
sybarite
Stillveryangry, I suggest you just don't put all your emotional eggs in the one basket, if you know what I mean. I think the idea of seeing other people is a good one, as even if he is a lovely guy, that's no use to you if he isn't around.

I wouldn't take it personally but I also wouldn't rely on him for much right now.
auralpoison
To paraphrase Macbeth, "Out out damned, bot!"
little_idiot
...
roseviolet
Ugh. The bad boys. I was always attracted to the bad boys. And I had a problem with commitment, too. Interestingly enough, it was one of those bad boys who gave me a real wake-up call. He said, "You know what your problem is? You're attracted to assholes." And he was soooooo right! Since then, I've found those assholes to be less and less attractive. I'd rather spend my energy on a person who respects himself and others than waste my time on some self-centered bad boy.

Little_Idiot, you most certainly have a right to have friends, whether you're married or not. But the feelings you're having sound too friendly. I suggest that, if you want to stay with your fiance, you need to put some distance between yourself and this co-worker. Your instincts are already telling you that the situation is getting dangerous. Listen to those instincts.

Since you work with this guy, you can't cut him out of your life altogether. So to keep you focused at work, put a photo of your fiance on your desk. Maybe keep a copy of one of his love letters or a CD he burned for you in your desk. Also, don't hang out with this co-worker alone anymore. It may be okay to continue seeing him in a group after work (only you can really know), but don't sit next to him. It sounds small, but it can help.

I got married about 2 years ago. And that time before the wedding was soooooooo damn stressful. I love my husband dearly and I think marrying him is one of the best things I've ever done. But getting married - the enormity of it all - really scared me. In a way, I think that was good because it meant I was taking things seriously. I wasn't just throwing a party & making an excuse to wear a pretty dress; I was making a life-long commitment! How can you not feel nervous about that? But when I felt scared or tempted, I stopped and I thought about the things that are unique about my partner. I thought about the things that make him - and this relationship - stronger and better than any other relationship I've had. And when I focused on his strengths and the things that make me love him and the positive affect he has had on my life ... well, there was no casual flirtation out there that could ever top what my fiance had already given to me.

And why get married instead of just living together? I honestly think that varies from person to person. For me, it just felt good to really Make That Commitment ... to have that bond with him that I've never had with anyone else ... to have this spiritual connection made more solid ... to take those vows & join our families. But to top it off, we're from seperate countries so the only way we could stay together would be by getting married! Plus, there are so many things that are just easier now that we're married (finances, insuarance, etc.). Still, I would've married him anyway because it just felt like the right decision for us. And I certainly don't think any less of couples who chose not to marry. The decision is just too personal.

Sorry this is so long, but I hope this helps, LI. Good luck to you!
girlygirlgag
Word to what Rose said.

I had the same situation when I was engaged. But, I realized the way I was acting had everyitng to do with the fact that I did not want to be with my fiance anymore, let alone marry him.

Take heed to rose's words. You need to seperate yourself fromt his guy.
nickclick
rosev, thanks. i'm keeping your post and re-reading for when i have any doubts about my current relationship with the guy i'll probably marry. he's definitely good in my life and my life is the best it's been. we've been together almost a year and because i was burned by the 'bad boy' so often in the past, i always get suspicious of him being sweet and kind. it's like i'm used to relationships being shitty and when it's not i look for ways to make it shitty.
aliboo
I somewhat fear other's reactions to this issue of mine. I am not sure why. But I guess I'll put it out here for now since I am still somewhat unknown in these parts. =P

I am getting married in a couple weeks, to a man whom I love so much...we have been together six years...very happy, no huge issues.

Lately, God help me, I have been feeling this huge urge to spawn. I don't necessarily want to get pregnant this very instant, or even this year, but I just want a general idea of when we can plan on doing this. I know we may also encounter some fertility issues. I want to feel prepared for anything.

For some reason I am having these huge issues with bringing all this up to him about wanting a timeline to have children. I feel like I'm being completely unreasonable by jumping into this conversation when we are still on rocky times as far as being "stable" goes. Cuz Lord knows the only stable thing we really will have is a marriage. But like I said, I'm not insisting on Hey You! Knock me up now! I just want to know when...2 years...3...and I want us to be on the same page.

He is not a huge baby/kid person. I think he could probably take them or leave them. I brought up babies early in our relationship (2 years in or so) and he was just kind of in no, let's not talk about that mode. Since then I have felt afraid to bring it back up as far as the actual timeline of having them. I mean we'll have that future children chatter and all that...but it seems like it is something in the far away future.

I'm also going through this whole...lots of friends getting married...talking about how they are talking about it with their husbands to be...making timelines...and it is just driving me crazy b/c I want to be one of those people!

This isn't actually about planning for babies and what not...this is about the fact that I feel like I can't be this open with him about what I am feeling. And that hurts me so bad. I don't know why I feel this way. I don't know if it is because he shut me down before or what. And I know he would never intentionally want me to feel that way, but I don't know how to go about reopening myself to him. He can very much be that keep feelings to myself type of person and I feel like at times I am turning into that as well and I don't want that.

I think I really just fear being shut down again. Especially this close to the wedding. B/c if he shuts me down, I'm going to be in flip out mode about our communication styles.

*sigh* I don't know. But it just feels a lot better to put my thoughts and feelings out there.
moddivorce
QUOTE(nickclick @ Feb 12 2007, 07:02 AM) *

rosev, thanks. i'm keeping your post and re-reading for when i have any doubts about my current relationship with the guy i'll probably marry. he's definitely good in my life and my life is the best it's been. we've been together almost a year and because i was burned by the 'bad boy' so often in the past, i always get suspicious of him being sweet and kind. it's like i'm used to relationships being shitty and when it's not i look for ways to make it shitty.


Reply to Aliboo

OH SISTER!!!! Bring it up quick. If you're marrying this man knowing you want children without knowing if he wants children, you could end up in a horribly, unsatisfying marriage! Whether or not you want children is a major life issue, not to mention, it's important to YOU! If you're married and wanting children and he doesn't...oh boy!

And, you like timelines, you want to plan your future, your clock is ticking - you have every right to know these things and if you can't discuss them, you can't get married!!! Puleeezzz!

Summon all your courage, and sit down and say: "Honey, one day, I'd love to have children a baby with you." If he responds positively, say "great....because we're getting older, we'll probably have to get started....[insert estimated date...]

It sounds like you're more scared of having the conversation than marrying a man whom might not meet your needs!

If you need a million reasons why you should ask....check out my website: www.moddivorce.com

Best.
H.
ps. raising kids is really challenging on a relationship...you both need to be in 1000%

QUOTE(nickclick @ Feb 12 2007, 07:02 AM) *

rosev, thanks. i'm keeping your post and re-reading for when i have any doubts about my current relationship with the guy i'll probably marry. he's definitely good in my life and my life is the best it's been. we've been together almost a year and because i was burned by the 'bad boy' so often in the past, i always get suspicious of him being sweet and kind. it's like i'm used to relationships being shitty and when it's not i look for ways to make it shitty.


REPLY to nickclick

OH-NO! Why would you marry someone you have doubts over??? Don't do it! I did it...standing at the alter thinking - "why am I marrying this man?" Oh, don't do it!!! You deserve better, exactly what you want!!!

There are a BILLION fish in the sea. Don't settle! Divorce is hard, being in a disappointing relationship is worse! (believe me, I know - this is my website: www.moddivorce.com)

Best,
HT
nickclick
mod, thanks for the advice but please do so without the ads. i'd hate to speak for all busties but we usually don't like that kind of stuff 'round these parts. we're all just friends here.
roseviolet
I'd like to second NickClick. Mod, we appreciate that you're proud of your website, but your repeated mention of it sounds terribly spammy. Just relax & talk naturally with us, okay?

That being said, Aliboo, Mod does make a good point. You need to be able to talk with him about this sort of thing. This is the man with whom you'll be making many big decisions - babies, jobs, where to live, insurance, mortgages, etc - so you need to be able to talk about everything. You need to make sure that you have the same goals for your relationship together. Granted, he probably won't know exactly when he'll be ready to have kids (it sounds like you've probably thought about that more than he has), but he should at least know whether he wants kids or not. Introduce the topic. Ask him how he feels. And remember that he knows you and loves you. You may be pleasantly surprised.

By the by, I understand about the pressure you can feel when so many other friends are getting married and planning their lives, too. But you two have to do what's best for you. Don't try to keep up with the Jonses.
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