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p_176
LMP -
guys like you describe (28, work pt, live at home, play video games) are kind of sad, in that, they are not pushing themselves to be more ambitious, and they have enablers who let them stay that way. chances are, he'll meet someone, somehow, and start growing up 'cause most women aren't going to stand for that kind of lifestyle....or else, he's hoping he'll find a sugar momma :-/
LoveMyPugs
p_176, I think he might have found her. He is now dating a woman who has two children, works fulltime and rents a house. He's been dating her less then six months and he's moved in. He's still just working part-time and goes to his parents house to watch tv/play video games/sleep while she's at work. he commented that she cooks and he does the dishes. well fucking right. in fact i think his ass should fucking cook and clean as well. drives me crazy. why does she want to be with someone who is so unmotivated. i don't understand that to save my life.
girlygirlgag
BAH.

Mr G and I keep different hours, we always have. I am an 8-5er, he works as an urban planner but is an independent contractor. He also is the general manager and promoter for a venue in town.

When we do not have the little G's, he usually works really, really late. HE gets a lot done work wise and writes a lot of music. He doesn't get in bed until well after 2 am.

That doesn't bother me.

What bothers me is that I have to get up at 5:30- 6 am. He climbed into bed at 4:45 last night and does what he ALWAYS does. HE starts rubbing me with his cold ass feet, pawing me, because he wants to have sex.

I HAVE HAD IT. He has never compromised about his late nights and after all of these years, I am fine with it. BUT. I think it is completely insensitive that he wakes me up to do it to him, when he knows I need my sleep!

Then he made a comment on how I can't get mad for never having sex, because he tries to initiate it. AT 5 AM.

I just yellled, if you want to fuck, see me in the PM, dammit!

argh.
themeiu
LMP,
I totally know what you're talking about. Before I started dating Mr. Meiu most of my previous boyfriends fell into the other category you described. They were all selfish about their time, money, and personal space. Every time they did something for me (like, take me out to dinner on my birthday) they made such a big deal about it and acted lie they deserved a gold star or something.
My most recent ex was constantly saying things like, "well, I know that I want to date other people in a few years." Uhhh, ok, then why am I dating you now? To invest a bunch of time and energy only to be cast aside when you're ready to sow your oats? (BTW, this particular man is now bemoaning the fact that he's single and just wants to find his "juilet" now bleh. He keeps dropping comments about how I'm going to break up with Mr. Meiu eventually and we'll started dating again.... as if)
So, when I started dating the Mr, it was a complete shock to be treated so well. It's kinda amazing what I put up with because I didn't know there was anything else.

I'm still a student, but the Mr. is 6 years older than me and just landed a killer job. I decided to relocate to Palo Alto to move in with him which has to be one of the most expensive places to live in CA (silicon valley). So, I clearly could not afford to live here. So basically, he is now supporting me while I'm going to school, which is a huge ego blow for me, but getting better. I have offered to get a job, but he said the kind of job that I can get now before I'm out of school would pay so little that the contribution wouldn't be worth it and he'd rather I be happier and not stressed out.
The problem is, I feel obligated to do all of the housework. And I always feel like I'm not doing enough. He never says anything to imply this, it's all me. But, he really enjoys his job. it's really fun and exciting for him and not work at all. It's basically just an extension of his PhD work which he's really passionate about. But I HATE housework. It's boring, and monotonous and dirty. I just wish there was a way that I could feel better about it, or trick myself into not hating it so much. Plus, the Mr. is not great about cleanliness, so in addition to regular up keep, there is backtracking. Grrrr. But I feel like I can't really say anything to him about it. Sigh. I know he's not going to change, so I should just get used to it....
LoveMyPugs
GGG - Mr. Pug does something similar. I need to sleep BY MYSELF! I like my own pillows, my own blanket and my own side of the bed. Mr. Pug is 6'4" and we are both large people. When we first started sleeping through the night together we had a double bed. blink.gif After about three days of that I woke up in the middle of the night and announced that the next day we were going to buy a king. So we did and we love it. Then we tried sharing blankets and that didn't work either. He takes them all and I'm left shivering in the night. So we have seperate blankets now as well. The problem is that he wakes up in the middle of the night and cann't fall back to sleep or he gets cold and he slides on over next to me. Well being such a big freaking guy his arm alone ways like 3 tons and he flops it over on me and then his leg as well and I'm smoothered beneath. I can't breath, move or SLEEP! I've gotten up in the morning so pissed off because for the last three hours I've been laying there so uncomfortable and now I'm so freaking tired. All he says is, "I'm sorry, I wanted to lay with you. I love you." Well how can you be mad at that? I'll tell you how. When this happens every night for a freaking week and you are so tired that you are the moody bitch from hell you suddenly become able to yell, "Will you get the fuck off of me and move the fuck over!" in the middle of the night with no sense of guilt what so ever. smile.gif


QUOTE(themeiu @ Oct 24 2007, 02:19 PM) *
I'm still a student, but the Mr. is 6 years older than me and just landed a killer job. I decided to relocate to Palo Alto to move in with him which has to be one of the most expensive places to live in CA (silicon valley). So, I clearly could not afford to live here. So basically, he is now supporting me while I'm going to school, which is a huge ego blow for me, but getting better. I have offered to get a job, but he said the kind of job that I can get now before I'm out of school would pay so little that the contribution wouldn't be worth it and he'd rather I be happier and not stressed out.
The problem is, I feel obligated to do all of the housework. And I always feel like I'm not doing enough. He never says anything to imply this, it's all me. But, he really enjoys his job. it's really fun and exciting for him and not work at all. It's basically just an extension of his PhD work which he's really passionate about. But I HATE housework. It's boring, and monotonous and dirty. I just wish there was a way that I could feel better about it, or trick myself into not hating it so much. Plus, the Mr. is not great about cleanliness, so in addition to regular up keep, there is backtracking. Grrrr. But I feel like I can't really say anything to him about it. Sigh. I know he's not going to change, so I should just get used to it....


Girl!!!! I FEEL YOU ON THIS ONE!!! We are living the same life together. When I lost my job it was wonderful to have Mr. Pug offer to support me while I finish school. I too offered to get a job and he said, "No, I want you to focus on school." It was a huge sacrafice on his part for me. However, regarding the chores I am with you. Oh, he'll help. Alot. But I always have to ask for it. He won't do laundry on his own. I have to ask him to do it and remind him to switch it over to the dryer and so on and so forth. My biggest issue is dishes. I do ALL of the dishes. To be specific I wash all the dirty dishes. He'll put clean ones away but I have to have a 20 minute debate/argument with him in order to get him to wash the dirty dishes. When he finally starts doing them he acts like a little kid doing chores he doesn't want to do. He slams things and curses the whole time. When that starts I'm like, "FINE. I'LL FUCKING DO IT. GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN."


AHHHHHHHHHHHH

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Drives me insane.

Because Mr. Pug is now a bust poster I can't tell you what I think about doing with the butcher's knife while I'm washing it.

In all honesty, I've discussed this with him soooooooooo, sooooooooooooooo, sooooooooooooooooo many times that it's just not going to change and I've come to terms with the fact that he won't offer to do much of anything and that if I just ask he'll do it so I've gotten very comfortable with asking him to help (but not the dishes grrrrr).
girlygirlgag
I talked to him today and I knew he was going to throw it in my face. The thing is, I don't mind him coming in and spooning me, (as long as he keeps his cold ass feet to himself), but I KNOW MR G. He doesn't just spoon to spoon, no he wants to do it. EVERYTIME. he spoons me for a minute and then the hands start to wander, AND IT IS SO EFFING ANNOYING.

I tried this on him one night and he almost kicked me out of the bed.


I think I just need to get a tazer. He needs tazed.
girlygirlgag
zuh?
girlygirlgag
I guess I broke the internet.
LoveMyPugs
QUOTE(girlygirlgag @ Oct 24 2007, 04:10 PM) *
I think I just need to get a tazer. He needs tazed.


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

How about a nice cold shock to go with those cold ass feet!
nickclick
one word. socks.

tell him, maybe sox = sex.

mr.nick cooks dinner most nites, thankfully, cuz i hate it. i love eating, hate cooking. but that leaves me with the dishes, which is fair trade off. but on the off-nite that i cook, he whines that he has to do dishes. it seriously takes him an hour, because he has to stop to watch tv, and being a drummer, he's banging on pots and making noise with wine glasses the whole time. ohmygod it's just soap, water and food gunk. just do it.
themeiu
Nickclick,
I know what you mean. I main problem with mr. meiu is his distractability. He will just wander away in the middle of doing something, especially something domestic, and I have to drag him back over. Thankfully he doesn't get mad about it or upset. He just gets a little ditzy.
I don't know what the resistance is to dish washing. I find that if I just do it right away, I hardly even notice it, it just kinda happens. But when they whine about and make it a big deal, they are only making it that much worse for themselves. Ugh
girlygirlgag
QUOTE(nickclick @ Oct 25 2007, 02:07 PM) *
one word. socks.

tell him, maybe sox = sex.


it's more

sometime before 11:30 pm = sex

No booty between the hours of 12 am and 6 am on school nights. EVER. Wake me up and DIE.


shinyx3
pugs, i feel you and meiu, i do not work out side the home and was going to school before baby came. i know we have bitched about this before too but it can be soooo damned annoying! i do not make a cute little suzie homemaker.
p_176
LMP - women like that either think the guy will change and get motivated, or they want to and like taking care of him.

ugh.
sassygrrl
Yeah, I'm not the home maker either. I noticed the last month of so, Mcgeek was just expecting me to make dinner and do chores because I wasn't working. Well, I hate to do chores.

It really got to me. I finally got a job (I start Sat!!), but we're taking some time apart. Mainly, because I keep finding his ex's shit everywhere. I mean, they've been divorced for a year now. It feels like I'm living with two people instead of one.

So, I'm back at my apartment for a while. rolleyes.gif
LoveMyPugs
QUOTE(girlygirlgag @ Oct 25 2007, 12:48 PM) *
sometime before 11:30 pm = sex


No, no, no GGG

It's sex after 11:30 p.m. = taze laugh.gif

Okay ladies, hear me out on this one.

So Mr. Pugs and I had plans to go out with a bunch of friends tonight for one of our friends birthday. It's been set in stone for a month and a half and I've been looking forward to it.

Last night when Mr. Pug was at his bowling league the husband of the director of the youth league that he coaches for on Saturday mornings comes up to him and tells him that his wife (the director) is in the hospital sick. He then preceeds to tell him that him and his wife won't be coming in on Saturday morning to run the youth league and that Mr. Pug is pretty much on his own. There are over a hundred kids in the league. He needs to put kids who are absent into the computer and collect money and COACH! Even when there are three coaches he is helping so much that he rarely gets to COACH! He's too busy collecting money from parents who sit back and gab or drop their kids off at the door and take off. This is completely volunteer. He is the only coach who doesn't actually have children in the league. He does this purely because he loves being there when the kids are bowling. The people who run the bowling alley are supposed to collect the money and put scores into the computer and what not but NO, NO, NO they are completely useless and don't do shit. Most of the time they aren't even at the counter when you need them.

So, Friday night we are supposed to go out for this birthday get together. Saturday morning Mr. Pug has to run the youth league all by himself and then Saturday night he volunteered to go work at a children's haunted hayride an hour away in Pennsylvania with his cousin. He also volunteered to work on his cousins car next Friday (he will make some money from this). So when he told me all this I flipped out. I told him that we are probably going to get home very late Friday night, then get up very early Saturday morning and he'll get home very late Saturday night then we won't see much of each other until Sunday morning. He works very hard and is usually exhausted on the weekends and now he's going to be completely wiped out. After I said that I knew what was going to happen. He wanted to cancel plans to go out Friday night so that he could get to bed early and be rested for the long Saturday ahead. This just pissed me off. We've been planning this outting for a month and a half. Then we are going to cancel the night before? Even though I was pissed about it I said fine. Cancel plans whatever. So he goes and gets on the computer and EMAILS his friend to cancel plans. I think this is a completely shit way out. At least call him tomorrow I said and apologize. He promised he would. So today his friend's wife emails me and is all upset because we are "bailing" out on her husbands birthday. I feel like shit now. I apologized to her and told her what was going on. She hasn't responded yet.

He is totally being taken advantage of in this youth league and I'm tired of it. He can't even get a freaking free soda at the snack bar for coming in and giving up his time. When I tell him this all he says is, "If I didn't go the kid's league would fall apart. I don't want that to happen." Well, I can't argue with that. Shit he's helping little kids to do something productive on the weekends instead of being out on the streets getting into trouble. Lord knows there is nothing to do in Middletown, Delaware but get into trouble or bowl. But it just erks me that we had to cancel plans that we made a month and a half ago. I was really looking forward to it. So, feeling this way, I freaked out on him last night about it all. When things calmed down and we went to bed he was so mad at me. I asked him why he was mad at me and not at the assholes at the bowling ally. He said that he was just looking for some support when he told me about it and I freaked out. I did freak out. I know I did. But, it just feels like bullshit. Makes me worry that someday when we have kids he'll drop plans with them to go volunteer his time for somebody elses kids. I know I feel like this because it's what my dad did when I was growing up. I know Mr. Pug isn't my dad and we don't even have kids and I should just cross that bridge when I get there. But it's not the first time we've had to cancel plans on a Friday night because of bowling. The other thing that pisses me off is that the bowling alley and the youth league parents are so fucking ungrateful.

Last but not least, when I go to help on Saturday I'm going to be counting money. Not sure if you know but I lost my job last Decembr at Wachovia because I had a $2000 cash difference in my drawer. Although there are extenuating circumstances to my being fired I'm still very hesitant about counting cash. I'm not good with doing small basic math in my head like that. So, I'm canceling plans that I was very excited about, then counting cash all Saturday morning which I hate doing cause I'm scarred from being fired and the he's just going to roll afterwards to go volunteer again at the haunted hayride.

I know it's all volunteer and for KIDS but come on. Am I being unreasonable here? Tell the truth. If I'm just being selfish I can take it.
girlygirlgag
QUOTE(sassygrrl @ Oct 26 2007, 02:29 AM) *
It really got to me. I finally got a job (I start Sat!!), but we're taking some time apart. Mainly, because I keep finding his ex's shit everywhere. I mean, they've been divorced for a year now. It feels like I'm living with two people instead of one.

So, I'm back at my apartment for a while. rolleyes.gif



I have been living with Mr G for three years (after dating for a year) and I still find some of his exes things around, not as much over the years, though. Don't sweat it. Guys are dumb like that.
sassygrrl
Right, he's being a guy. I'm probably over-analyzing. But, I just need some space right now. It actually feels good to sleep in my own bed.

Pugs, I don't think you're being irresponsible or selfish.

shinyx3
sassy, men are so dumb about stuff like that. i am married and i still find shit form the exes. i get pissed every time too. it is all stupid stuff that he didn't even know was there.

pugs, my hubby works like crazy. lately he has been getting up in the middle of the night and going to work. he is salaried so the extra hours he puts is are not extra money. at least not right up front. he has several huge goals with work right now and i realize that this will likely go on for a while and then even when it does slow a bit it will be back to this again at another time. this is just the way he is. he makes an effort to do things with the family but often cancels things that were planned in advance and i have a hard time with this as well. however, he really does just want my support. and i find that even when i am frusterated about how hard he is working and how he cancels on me and our friends, getting pissed about it doesn't help anything. i can let him know i am upset without being harsh about it and then i can go on supporting him. i know you said you feel like shit for canceling on your friend and i understand this but mr pugs is what is more important to you, so try to keep that in mind. also, it was not his fault that the guys wife is sick. maybe when this weekend is done and you are not so pissed you can talk about cutting back a little on the volenteering, maybe if there was one less thing he volenteered for that would help. anyway, i guess what i am saying is that maybe you should swallow it this time and let him know that he is a great guy for caring so much about the volenteer stuff (that may have something to do with why you love him so much . . . the kind of guy he is) and that even though you are bummed about missing the friends party and you feel like he is being taken advantage of, you understand and support him.

as for the dad issues, shit, we all have issues that creep up and fuck with our everyday lives but try to remember that it is your issue, not his.

i hope i don't come across as pompous here, i don't mean to, and i realize that if i took my own advice more often my life would be happier.
LoveMyPugs
yeah I know. everything you said is right on. i do love that he is such a great guy. i just don't like when others take advantage of him. i also don't like to see him work so hard. he gets tired. i can see it in his eyes. i know he's going to be just as volunteering with our children. he'll be the first father in line to help. he is wonderful like that and that is one of the qualities i love about him the most. he offered to take me out to dinner this morning because he knows i'm pissed about missing the party. i told him okay but i think i'm just gonna surprise him with a good dinner and i baked him cupcakes. i think i might take a few into the bowling alley tomorrow and see if i can bribe some extra hard work out of the staff and maybe some of the parents as well, to take some of the pressure off mr. pugs. kill em with kindness right wink.gif he is a great guy but *stomps foot* he's my great guy and i want him too ya know! smile.gif well i'm off. thanks for the support ladies.
sassygrrl
Pugs hope everything works out.

Mcgeek is being a world class asshole right now. He's blaming me for moving out, when it was my decision in the first place. The worst part? The majority of my clothes are at his house, which wouldn't bother me tonight if I didn't have my first day of work tomorrow. All I have here are jeans and t-shirts. That won't make a good first impression. I just don't like people playing games. mad.gif



brookelynne
Hi, all.

Sooooo I just completely ranted on the phone to my boyfriend's mom about this (probably not the right outlet) and now I feel a bit guilty for complaining, so I thought I'd take it here. Over the course of our four year relationship (which started in college) I have completely turned my life around from being a slacker student destined for mediocrity to making dean's list every semester, graduating and getting accepted to a top-tier school in my field for my masters degree, and even convincing scholarship foundations and my school to pay for more than 2/3 of my education (even though my parents were willing to pay the whole thing). We moved in together, in a different city (for my schooling) 14 months ago, and since then I have gotten a full-time job at what is simply the best place to work in my field, the holy grail of the industry. So now it's great career, decent salary, wrapping up my second degree. In the meantime, he has slacked at school, taken the gre to go to grad school, bombed that, given up on grad school without sending out a single application. He took an entry-level job in municipal government in something totally random that he never studied, because he needed a job. He decided that he'd go to law school, by default, but bombed the LSAT (that's what happens when you don't crack a test prep book). Now he will probably get into an absolute bottom tier school, and he'll go.

Point being, I'm feeling a little short-changed. I make significantly more, but I work harder, longer hours and have a longer commute. I do more at home, pay for more of the shared household expenses, etc. and yet I still am depriving myself to sack away thousands of extra dollars to pay for his education. Because starting in September, I'm going to be carrying our whole rent and all of our living expenses. Not to mention helping pay off those student loans for the rest of my life.

Moreover, even though we are in a long-term, very committed relationship, he refuses to talk about getting engaged. He says he wants to get married someday but we are too young to even talk about it. I'm 23, he's 24. I feel like you're old enough to talk about it if you're old enough to live together, have two dogs, be completely financially independent, and are even saving money for retirement. I'm 23 going on 35, head over heels for a man who is mentally still a college sophomore. That being said, he is a fundamentally good person, who will be a great father and a great husband someday.... How do I step back and focus on the big picture when I'm working myself to the bone for someone who can't appreciate that?

Ughhhh sorry that just came out way longer than it needed to to get the point across. Thanks for reading.... any response is greatly appreciated!
nickclick
sassy, sorry mcgeek's being mcasshole. have you talked to him again this weekend? how was your first day at work?

brooke, my ex also fell into the no-rush-to-make-future-plans category. we made just about the same salary, but while i'm always working toward career goals, he was too smart for and always complaining about his retail job, and doing zilch to change it. i would offer to work more or save more so he could go to school and work part-time, or take a paycut and get into something he was happier with, but he was not enthused. he also dragged his heels about buying a house, sharing a bank account, marriage, or anything else grown-up. anyway, he's my ex, and it took me a long time to not feel guilty about those being the reasons for leaving him. there's nothing wrong with wanting to plan for the future, especially at a young age. by the way, he's still in our same apt. and working the same job, and i'm much happier.

you definitely have a right to worry if you're helping to fund his schooling, or at least his lifestyle during schooling, and he doesn't share your long-term plans. i'm not saying to leave him like i did, just saying it's a valid concern because he's probably not going to change anytime soon.

also, i'm curious, how did his mom reply?

Mr Pugs
Brooke, you never know where you'll learn something new....

Fortune cookie wisdom: "You must let go of who you are to become who you can be"

I've always followed that mantra without knowing it. I'm not a complainer, if I don't like something, I'll work to change it. I would have a frank and up front conversation with him and state your concerns/fears. Usually based on the response you get, your decision should be a little easier to make. Either he will get the picture and work on changing it, or not care. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Mr. Pugs
sassygrrl
Mcasshole is trying. We're not great, but I don't expect us to be. He told me he was trying to clean out all of her stuff, so that's a start right? However, the bitch still has a key. Um. No.
So, I did spend last night there, b/c today was my first day of work. Yet, I'm probably not going to spend the week there.

My first day was good. Long, but okay. It's just a lot to learn, and I am the new kid on the block. Sorry if this is off topic... smile.gif


LoveMyPugs
brookelynne -

From your posts I've made you some important lists here!

YOU

QUOTE
  • making dean's list every semester
  • graduating
  • getting accepted to a top-tier school in my field for my masters degree
  • convincing scholarship foundations and my school to pay for more than 2/3 of my education
  • I have gotten a full-time job at what is simply the best place to work in my field
  • great career
  • decent salary
  • wrapping up my second degree
  • I work harder
  • longer hours
  • have a longer commute
  • do more at home
  • pay for more of the shared household expenses
  • depriving myself to sack away thousands of extra dollars to pay for his education


HIM

QUOTE
  • he has slacked at school
  • taken the gre to go to grad school, bombed that
  • given up on grad school without sending out a single application
  • took an entry-level job in municipal government in something totally random that he never studied, because he needed a job
  • decided that he'd go to law school, by default, but bombed the LSAT
  • will probably get into an absolute bottom tier school, and he'll go.
  • he refuses to talk about getting engaged
  • man who is mentally still a college sophomore
  • he is a fundamentally good person


I can tell you, after reviewing "his" list. I don't think he's going to be:

QUOTE
a great father and a great husband someday
If you don't look up to him how do you expect yourself or your future children to later on.

So if you want to:

QUOTE
step back and focus on the big picture


I'd say you've pretty much done it for yourself. You sound like a lovely, intelligent, independent woman and I admire you very much. You deserve someone who will appreciate and also admire you. Also, Mr. Pug's offered some very good advice IMO. However, I'm biased being his fiance and all. smile.gif Good Luck!
roseviolet
Brooke, I have a question about the rent & utilities payments. I understand that you may be paying more because you're getting paid more, but do you mean that a greater percentage of your paycheck is going to these things than the percentage he is paying? For instace, does 50% of your income go to these items while he pays only 30% of his income towards rent & utilities? If that is the case, then I can understand your frustration.
Only roommates split the bills neatly in half. Partners are often better off by finding a different definition of equal - for instance, each person paying the same percentage out of their paychecks towards the bills. It doesn't work for everyone, but a lot of couples find that it is more fair.

Now here's the tough bit.

I think that it is a very very bad idea for you to pay for his schooling. Graduate school is extremely expensive, as you know well. How will you feel if you pay for his degree and then you two break-up? As things stand now, you will have no legal recourse to ever get that money back. It will be considered a gift. So as long as you two are not married, I think you have two options:
1. Have someone write up a legally-binding contract that details the loan that you arrange between the two of you
or
2. Tell him he has to get a loan elsewhere.
I know this sounds brutal, but in all honesty, I can be a bit of a bitch when it comes to money. It's a long story. You don't have to take my advice, but I urge you to at least research your options.

Understand that I am not suggesting that you use this money as a way to pressure him into marrying you. I'm not saying that at all. If he doesn't want to get married, he has the right to feel that way. I'm just thinking of your financial well-being.

If he really wants to go to grad school, he'll find a way to get the money. If he doesn't, then he won't.

And that brings up my next question: Are you sure that he wants to go to graduate school? Or is he being pressured to go? Graduate school isn't for everyone. Most people do not have the kind of drive that you do, Brooke. If you really and truly love this man, I think you need to stop thinking about what he could be and start loving him for what he is right now. Is he flawed? Yes, but so are we all. Does he have a less lucrative job than you? Yes, but I bet that's true for most people his age. Stop thinking about the great husband or father he could be someday and look at the man you live with today. Do you love him? As he is? If he stays at this government job and never has a career as impressive as yours, will you still love him anyway?

I suspect that your boyfriend may be going through some changes. I suspect that he thought he knew what he wanted out of life, but is having a change of heart. I suspect that he doesn't know what he wants from a career or what he wants from a partner ... which is why he can't fully commit to marriage or even studying for a test.

It's time to have some honest discussions with him. No one on the internet has the right answers. You can only find them through talking to your boyfriend. I suggest that you ask questions, but remain open, loving, and accepting of his answers. Give him time to talk. Listen. Work towards understanding one another. Decide what you each really want. Hopefully you will find some harmony.

Good luck to both of you.
nickclick
i can't add anything except.... whoa. there's some smart and considerate folks around here.
girlygirlgag
QUOTE(LoveMyPugs @ Oct 30 2007, 02:46 AM) *
brookelynne -

From your posts I've made you some important lists here!

YOU
HIM
I can tell you, after reviewing "his" list. I don't think he's going to be:

If you don't look up to him how do you expect yourself or your future children to later on.

So if you want to:
I'd say you've pretty much done it for yourself. You sound like a lovely, intelligent, independent woman and I admire you very much. You deserve someone who will appreciate and also admire you. Also, Mr. Pug's offered some very good advice IMO. However, I'm biased being his fiance and all. smile.gif Good Luck!



I think that is unfair. You both are very young. The person you are at 24 is most likely not going to be the person you are at 30.


Brookelynne, I agree with Rose soooooo much. I think you have drank the koolaid (which is not a bad thing at all) and are putting a lot of expectations on your boyfriend.

Maybe he doesn't want to go to grad school? It sounds like you are putting a lot of pressure on him and maybe the reason he is bombing is because the pressure you are putting on him is affecting him negatively. Also, I have to ask you, at 23, what is the rush? Life happens soon enough without pressuring yourself and the people you care about to hurry it up. As an older person, my advice is to relax.

BUT, DO NOT PAY for his grad school. If you loan him money make him sign a promissary note and notarize it. Plus, I don't think he even wants to go. Also, working a low pay government job at 24 is NOT an extreme let down. He is 24.

Take care.
shinyx3
i am with ggg on this one. take your time. but do not pay for grad school for him. i think that will likely lead to resentment no matter how this turns out. men take longer to grow up then women. he may just need a little more time before he really figures out what he wants to do. he is young yet. so are you.
dj-bizmonkey
ok, just a quick question here, do y'all think it is fair/appropriate for your significant other to ask you to NEVER mention your ex's, even in passing, not having anything to do with the relationship, just some experience you might have had in the past?

i just want to know if i'm being unreasonable on combating this. my bf never talks about his ex's and even if he did, it might bother me, but i'd probably keep it to myself. however when i mention mine (just in passing, as in, i was at joe bob's that night and a puked on his couch, for example) he get's all emo and mopey. on the one hand, i don't want to make him feel uncomfortable, but on the other hand......i don't know, i guess i should just watch what comes out of my big fat mouth, right?
nickclick
i think it's unreasonable to ask that you never mention them, as long as it's not all the time and/or about how great they are, which is like, NO DUH. other than being considerate like that, i wouldn't want to be censored.

usually if mr.nick or i bring up an ex, it's either an anecdote, as you described, or some sort of learning experience from the relationship that i'm glad we went thru already!

that's all part of who you are, and your bf should accept the whole package.
dj-bizmonkey
thanks nickclick, i just need a reality check from an unbiased perspective.

and my apologies to everyone out there if i sound like a broken record.
LoveMyPugs
Dear Goddess of Kitchen Cleaners,

Give me strength not to kill him for bringing home tuperware that has been sitting in the fridge for Goddess knows how long. Give me strength please!!!!

Your loyal kitchen slave,

LoveMyPugs

brookelynne
Girly, Shiny, Rose, and both Pugs,

Thanks for the responses. You are all so, so insightful, and the fact that you took the time to read what I had to say and reply so thoughtfully makes me see the internets in this totally different way: warm and fuzzy instead of anonymous and detached.

Anyway... I think venting to you made the urgency of the issue sort of fade away for me. And, in the meantime, he has geared up and started taking applications really seriously, and is almost done with them, a full three months before they are due. So that helps, significantly.

Regarding the whole issue of financing school, I decided I just really can't worry about it yet. And about the question of commitment, I can't bother myself with that either - as Rose said, he doesn't know what he wants, and on some level, I am not sure that he is what I want either. We had a huge fight this weekend (over nothing, of course) that made me wonder if there is any way the barriers between us, that keep us from being closer, can ever be broken down. We are both still stewing over things that we did to one another when we first started dating, things that should not be insurmountable but that we haven't managed to move past.

And some day, as much as I don't want to face it, I have to address my tendency to seek attention elsewhere, and the fact that I have occasionally let it lead me too far into the realm of infidelity. There is a part of me that wants to dance with someone (he doesn't dance), to have someone play with my hair (he says it gets in his way), to take the time to actually look at me sometimes (he doesn't really do that either).

So as you can see, my relationship problems are about a lot more than me being a high-octane career woman and him being a post-grad slacker.

As a side note, my previous post made me realize I need to talk to someone, desperately. I checked into my insurance policy and will be calling local shrinks in the morning! I think this is a positive step.

Thanks for the support.

Oh, and as to the question about how his mom responded to all this? We are fairly close, and talk on the phone often, including about my relationship (and sometimes hers with her husband). She listens, mostly. And she is occasionally sympathetic but mostly she just wants to smooth things over, and she tells me that it's not as bad as I make it sound. She says I'm the best thing that's ever happened to her son and I think her main priority is just to keep us together. So far, it's worked.
Mr Pugs
No prob brooklynne, glad to be of assistance...


Dear Goddess of Kitchen Cleaners,

Thank you for making me funny and cute enough not to get killed...our "kids" need a father figure in their lives!

Formerly sweating bullets,
Mr. Pugs

Dear Goddess of Remembering Shit,

Help me out a little would ya? I saw my life flash before my eyes in the kitchen, luckily I'm spry. I'm not asking for miracles, just a memory span longer than a goldfish's.

What's my name again?
Mr. Pugs
Bella-bu
Kia ora ladies of BUST...
This is my first time ever on the boards, so apologies if I tread on any toes... but I wasn't sure who else to turn to!
I'm wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction... I've just gotten engaged and the bridal magazine i was presented with yesterday by a well-intentioned friend has made me vomitous.
Are there any websites out there for a young lass who is tying the knot but not in a completely traditional manner??
shinyx3
bella, there is a thread about weddings in the ab fab forum. it is called "a day to remember . . . the wedding thread. i bumped it to the top. i think you might find suggestion there.
Bella-bu
Brilliant - thanks so much for that... :D
While Google Image searching for fascinators I stumbled across http://www.indiebride.com too so I think I'm not going to have to yet resort to death by glossy paper cut!!
cheers again
LoveMyPugs
QUOTE(Mr Pugs @ Nov 7 2007, 12:40 PM) *
No prob brooklynne, glad to be of assistance...
Dear Goddess of Kitchen Cleaners,

Thank you for making me funny and cute enough not to get killed...our "kids" need a father figure in their lives!

Formerly sweating bullets,
Mr. Pugs

Dear Goddess of Remembering Shit,

Help me out a little would ya? I saw my life flash before my eyes in the kitchen, luckily I'm spry. I'm not asking for miracles, just a memory span longer than a goldfish's.

What's my name again?
Mr. Pugs


Baby,

Your a hot mess! laugh.gif

Love you so,

LMP aka the kitchen bitch
missjoy
Bella - I found most web sites and magazines I laughed at because I was never a 'I've-dreamed-of-this-day-forever/best-day-of-my-life/I'm-a-princess' kinda girl. You gotta take the pearls of interest out of the volumes of crap.

I signed up for a bridal mailing list that ended up being hilarious (but not helpful). It was like white trash central. One girl was complaining that her fiancee's boss wouldn't let her travel with her fiancee in his transport truck/big-rig anymore because it distracted him from work - and I believe one of them wasn't divorced from their previous marrage - and they wanted an Elvis wedding in a non-kitch way.

eeks
dj-bizmonkey
hey everyone! i just wanted to give an update RE: my bf's extreme and illogical jealousy.

last night we were having one of those long, fantastic, don't ever want to get off the phone conversations and i was talking about the state i was in when we first met. i was totally broken hearted, dejected, thinking no one could ever love me, basically. then he started to inquire as to why i was in that frame of mind and of course it had to do with an ex. he kept asking me questions and finally i said, 'look, you asked me not to talk about this kind of stuff, so i haven't been out of respect for you.' the he said, 'i know, and i was being utterly ridiculous and unfair. this is my problem and i have to get over it. so let's talk about it. let's talk about what went wrong in that relationship. i need to work on being able to hear these things on occasion and not get upset. i'm not perfectly there yet, but i'm trying.'

i was so proud of him to admit all of those things and also make a conscious effort not to be a total protective alpha male about it. in the end it comes less from a posessive, jealous standpoint and more from a place of love for me. at least how he explained it, he can't stand the thought of anyone treating a woman who is as beautiful, caring and intelligent as me, with even a fraction less of the tenderness and respect that i deserve. that's really what pisses him off the most. not that some one was there before him, but that some one was there and had no clue how to treat me right.

so we're making progress and i'm glad that i can talk about my past (certainly not ad naseum) without it turning into a huge fight. we're not perfect and we never will be, but it makes me happy that he is making a concerted effort to learn to deal with his irrational feelings. just one more reason that i love him.
anarch
treating a woman who is as beautiful, caring and intelligent as me, with . . . the tenderness and respect that i deserve

this bears repeating.

Your update brightens my day!

mr anarch & I just had one of those talks. I said something that pissed him off, he snapped at me and went to bed before I did, then this morning we talked about it and agreed we each had things to work on. Such a good feeling when we're able to air out problems with each other and come to at least a partial resolution, which paves the way for changes.
edie52
Dj-bizmonkey! Yay! That's wonderful to hear.

I love moments like that. I find that's the main difference between my last relationship and my current one. We've had problems but so far we've always managed to see the forest for the trees.
nickclick
good news all around!

QUOTE(edie52 @ Dec 3 2007, 03:27 PM) *
I love moments like that. I find that's the main difference between my last relationship and my current one. We've had problems but so far we've always managed to see the forest for the trees.


totally. it's amazing how little i need - respect, listening, honesty - and how i didn't realize how i never got those things until i actually did.
nickclick
in light of all the questions at christmas dinner, mr.nick and i had some serious convo on the way home last nite about getting married. he's traditional enough to want to give me a (modest, please) ring and to be the one doing the asking, but at the same time he knows enough that it's a topic to be discussed of course.

any experience in finding the right balance between planning an engagement and the fun surprise of popping the question?

PS squeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!
Mr Pugs
I'm not sure what kind of planning you have to do...If it's agreed that you guys want to get married, sit back and wait for the show. Let him surprise you.

It was funny when LMP and I got engaged...I went to her father for permission (I was a shoe-in), bought the ring, and took her to this really nice park that has linked ponds with waterfalls. I wanted to have her climb this hill with me because about halfway up there is a stone bench overlooking the gardens and I was going to propose there. She was on her period, all crampy and grumpy, and she would not climb the freakin hill for anything. It then turned into an argument at the end of which she said she just wanted to go home. On the way up to the car, round two started with her yelling at me about why it was so goddamn important that we climbed the hill. I sat her down on a rock wall and got on one knee and pulled the ring out of my pocket and asked her. At this point she was crying pretty bad and she just held out her hand and started shaking her head yes, but I teased her and made her say yes, saying that if you really don't want to marry me you don't have to...lol...

All that means all the planning in the world doesn't mean anything, but it's going to be a special memory nonetheless. We still laugh about it to this day...
nickclick
cute story mr.p!

by planning i mostly mean shopping for a ring, and maybe picking a good time frame for engagement.
Mr Pugs
Understood...I guess I'm more of a hands-off approach. I knew what she was looking for in a ring even if she didn't. She told me that she wanted a princess cut, but when I was looking at the diamonds, I knew she would prefer a round cut. I shopped around and took my time picking one out. I guess that paid off because whenever she goes back to Robbins to get it cleaned, all the staff compliment her on the stone.
LoveMyPugs
When Mr. Pug says he knew what I'd prefer I think he means that even though I said I wanted a princess cut I really always marveled diamonds that sparkled and he knew that round cut sparkled more then princess cut. So when he was shopping he bought me a round cut that sparkled like crazy. I love, love, love my ring and get compliments all the time.

I don't see a problem with going to look at rings together and then letting him pick based off your interests. I think the proposal is nice when it's a surprise but I know others who haven't been surprised and were still very happy. I think that's a couple to couple based thing.

Good luck.
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