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sukouyant
Hi everyone. I have experience in several areas of the industry in my city and right now I’m an exotic dancer (that word for it always makes me think of Show Girls and leopard print) and I work part-time with books among other things.

This is a thread for people in or interested in massaging, dancing, sexing, chatting, modeling, domming or subbing, or what ever have you in the industry- where we can exchange notes, talk shop and kick back.

Thanks bunnyb for the thread title.


I wanted to post two pieces of news right off:

Attention Gold Club (S.F.) Dancers Final Settlement of Gold Club Class Action Suit!
If you danced at the Gold Club in San Francisco Ca., k from May 24, 2000 until Feb 18, 2004 know anyone that danced at the Gold Club, or can pass the word to others that would be a good thing! Unless you opted out you are a member of a class who sued the Gold Club and can apply for reimbursement that you’re entitled to.

Info: The Class alleged that Defendants violated California law by treating Class members as independent contractors, when those persons were in fact employees of one or more of the Defendants. Defendants denied the Class' allegations and asserted that Class members were properly treated as independent contractors, not employees. The case has settled and the settlement provides for reimbursement to class members of stage fees they paid to management of the Gold Club during the class period and reimbursement to class members of work expenses for costumes, shoes and stage make up purchased for use, and used at, the Gold Club during the class period, up to a maximum aggregate amount of $2,500,000.00, plus attorneys fees and incentive payments to the named class representatives.

The parties have agreed to settle all claims under the terms set forth in this notice and on July 11, 2006, this Court gave final approval to a settlement of the Class Action, approved the dismissal of this action, a mutual release, and directed that a judgment be entered pursuant to the settlement

For a background of the case and more information go here: http://www.bayswan.org/settlement_GC_8-06.html

and here:

http://www.gilardi.com/php/shownotice.php?...tring=home.php#

AND

Have you advertised with Eros Guide in California?
If you're a woman, you're probably owed money from a class action suit.
Please read below! I'm not the one who sued or who wrote this. I'm just reposting so more women hear about it.
The deadline to make a claim is only one month away.

"As you may or may not have known, Eros Guide used to give free ads to men--of course, we still paid for our ads. What you may not have known, and what I didn't know until roughly 1.5 years ago, was that charging men and women different prices for the same service is illegal in the state of California. So, when I discovered this gross inequity, I did what every self-respecting, red-blooded American would do: I sued them Or, rather, I sued them on behalf of *all* of us.

Every female who advertised on Eros Guide (either a visiting ad *or* a "base" ad) in any California city between March 21, 2001 and April 5, 2005 is entitled to a cash settlement - IF YOU FILE A CLAIM. That is the important part! You *must * follow through on this, ladies! Please make sure all of your provider friends (even if they're retired) get this information by the deadline, which is only *one month* away! You'll lose your $300 forever if you don't file your claim by the deadline, and so will your girl friends if they don't hear about this--Eros is required to email this notice to all of the addresses they have on-file, but you know how often our email addys change, so they very well may miss a huge chunk of the class, especially those who have moved on since April of last year. So get the word out!"

The settlement notice is below [it was really long to post here, so if you’re interested in reading it PM me and I can email you a copy or show you where it’s published, or you can contact the numbers below]--it is in legalese and may be difficult to understand, so you may simply want to contact our (as in mine and yours) attorneys if you have difficulty understanding it. Their information is here:

Class Counsel:
James A. Quadra, Esq.
Moscone, Emblidge & Quadra, LLP
180 Montgomery Street, Suite 1240
San Francisco, California 94104-4238
(415) 362-3599

If you simply need a copy of the claim form, email me @ bettina@sfbettina.com with "Eros class action" in the subject line and I will forward one to you.


***
bunnyb
Oh my goodness - my title suggestion was used biggrin.gif . Sorry, nothing to add but a gush to sukouyant!
raisingirl
Yeah, Bunny! Nice title. I have nothing to add, either, except I've often thought I'd be good at being a dom, so long as I'd never have to have sex with anyone who requests my services.
sukouyant
I found this and had to share

40 REASONS WHY WHORES ARE MY HEROES by ANNIE SPRINKLE

Whores have the ability to share their most private and sensitive body parts with total strangers.
Whores have good senses of humor.
Whores challenge sexual mores.
Whores are playful.
Whores are tough.
Whores have careers based on giving pleasure.
Whores are creative.
Whores are adventurous and dare to live dangerously.
Whores teach people how to be better lovers.
Whores are multi-cultured and multi-gendered.
Whores give excellent advice and help people with their personal problems.
Whores have fun.
Whores wear exciting clothes.
Whores have patience and tolerance for people that other people could never manage to put up with.
Whores make lonely people less lonely.
Whores are independent.
Whores teach people how to have safer sex.
Whores are a tradition.
Whores are hot and hip.
Whores are free spirits.
Whores relieve millions of people of unwanted stress and tension.
Whores heal.
Whores endure in the face of fierce prejudice.
Whores make good money.
Whores always have a job.
Whores are sexy and erotic.
Whores have special talents other people just don't have. Not everyone has what it takes to be a whore.
Whores are interesting people with lots of exciting life stories.
Whores get laid a lot.
Whores help people explore their sexual desires.
Whores explore their own sexual desires.
Whores are not afraid of sex.
Whores hustle.
Whores sparkle.
Whores are entertaining.
Whores have the guts to wear very big wigs.
Whores are not ashamed to be naked.
Whores help the handicapped.
Whores make their own hours.
Whores are rebelling against the absurd, patriarchal, sex-negative laws against their profession and are fighting for the legal right to receive financial compensation for their valuable work.
DO YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO BE A WHORE?
missladyj
Love Annie Sprinkle!

do Burlesque performers count as sex workers?
auralpoison
It's a fine line to tread. Technically, Hooters employees & models count because they use their sexuality to move product. I dunno. I would say yeah, burlesque counts. Anything where you use your sexuality to make a buck counts. Not to say that nobody's using their minds in the biz. I know a few very talented strippers that are athletic, graceful, & beautiful. I also know a few that just take their clothes off & just kinda wiggle around. My friend J is a fucking international DJ rockstar, but she still dances to make a few extra bucks here & in GA.

I do phone sex off/on to supplement my income. There is a strange sense of power that goes with it. The guy's O is totally in my hands. I mean, yeah, he's gonna get off either way, but I can draw it out forever & make a crazysickmad profit off of it.

I also write custom erotica for a website on Fridays. I call 'em Porno Fridays. I can knock out a few dirty stories in no time. Heh. Oddly, my clientele is mostly *very* specific queer boys... I have a gift for details & dialogue.
mermaidgirl13
I second the Annie Sprinkle love.

Aural, how did you get into the phone sex job? That's something that I'm really interested in doing to make some extra money but I don't know how to start.
auralpoison
First & foremost, I have one of *those* voices. I can talk a guy into a semi with a mere weather report. I answered an ad on the backpage of a local leftie periodical seeking conversational women with a sense of humor. I started off in an office full of people & eventually I got a job at a dating/sex service. They fucked up my hours because they were downsizing, so I got my own 900 line & started poaching customers from home. I'd go onto the number for the service I worked for, talk dirty to a guy a few times, & then depending on his income (I had access to that kind of stuff at my job.) invite him to call me anytime he wanted to get off. The hours between three & eight am (I dealt with people nationwide & from international locales.) were crazy busy. Morningwood & all... You have to be adaptable. I get everything from guys obsessed with anal (One of my *BEST* customers is an ass worshipper.), Dominating (I've done that professionally, too. They're what I call my "bitch boys". They *like* that term. A lot of them want to be dressed as sluts & have their asses fucked.), to various ages/races/etc. You have to be able to work with any fantasy. She-male, barely legal, mature, pregnant, bend over boyfriend, etc. The only thing I refused was underage shit because those fuckers are just sick.
falljackets
ap, i have to admit, i'm seriously interested in something like this too. i'm looking for a way to break out of my job and get back into modeling. it's something i've been thinking about for a while; curiously enough, i've thought more seriously about it since participating in the "porn/cock-blocking" thread. i loved how modeling made me feel and i'm ready to get back into it. it's just giving up my 9-5 salary that scares the shit out of me.

aaaanyway, know of any companies to recommend? i don't necessarily want an "anything goes" line (not into illegal shit, but completely fine with the stuff you mentioned). i know i could work it. i just don't want to do it for $7 per hour or something crazy like that...
mermaidgirl13
That brings up a good point, FJ -- how much did you get an hour, AP?

Also, thanks for the extra details, AP.
auralpoison
If the company is reputable you should be making at least $17 an hour. I was up to $22 & the company had lots of bonuses & incentives. No health insurance, though. Sadly, I don't know any companies in your areas.
bustygirl
I considered it once. I had a bartender who used to let me drink for free because he loved my 'whiskey voice'.
sukouyant
i've been pulling a double shift all week in order to pay for my license renewal*, and now all i feel like doing is pointing and clicking at things on a flashing screen. i think i'm also getting burned out at my club.

i had a customer who revealed that he used to be a dancer at a ladies' club back in the day. he was sauve enough to make me almost feel like tipping *him* which lets me know how good he must have been at his job. interesting factoid, male dancers at his club were required by management to take pills that would lower the chances of them getting an erection while dancing- erection seen as seriously taboo.

along the same lines, someone showed me an article in the current issue of Jane describing nightclubs in Japan where women pay for the attention of "boyfriends", like the male equivilant of hostess bars.

interesting stuff.


*for which the city gives me absolutely nothing but the privilege of paying the club to work there. can you say municipal cash grab?
auralpoison
I've always thought the whole male dancer thing was weird. Unless they're really good, they don't move very sensually. There's a whole lot of flexing & shaking & humping, but it always just makes me laugh. It's like, "I was a high school jock, shimmy shimmy, look at my awesome bod & wouldn't you be lucky to have a night with me!"

I was at a bar once where this guy danced for a whole hour to really bad music until he was down to a blue banana hammock thong. He was all shiny & oily. After the show he came out & gave business cards to all the ladies /gays. I handed it back & pointed to the bartender. I'd rather have seen him naked; he was smart, cute, funny, & could tie his own bowtie. Now that's hot!

A couple of times I went to one of the local gay bars with some trannie friends to drink on the cheap/watch the boys shake it. Most of the dancers were straight & there was a weird little sort of "girlfriend's corner" full of trashy, high maintenance looking women. Big hair, fake tans/tits/giant nails, giant handbags & crocheted minidresses. They reminded me of my dental hygenist. My friend's wife & I stayed on the other side of the room drinking pitchers of beer (How many glasses? Uh, I said I wanted a pitcher, I uh, don't need a glass.) & laughing at the creepy old men salivating over the firm young flesh on display. This lean, swimmer looking cat came up looking to dance for us & I just said, "I'm not giving you any money." I danced with him for about five minutes after he confided that he just needed a break from the lechers & wanted to dance with a girl. Once I started dancing with him I realized why he was a dancer. Yes he was well built, but he was packing some *serious* junk. Ginormous even when half hard. Testes like small oranges & of the low hanging variety.
sukouyant
see aural, i've never been to a male show, gay or straight, but according to reports on male-for-female revues, women go & make fools of our gender there.
auralpoison
Oh, fer reals. I come from pisswah, tiny town middle America & there was supposed to be a Chippendales male revue one year. Somehow the Chippies were cancelled & there was a *RABID* pack of women that had spent $25 cover for male Fabio action that they didn't receive. There was a near goddamned riot. Keep in mind that I lived in an environment where "Roseanne" type Dan Conners were the norm. Guys whose titties were likely just as big as yours & that were so accustomed to the apron strings it was sick. They eventually got the local junior college football team up there shirtless to appease them. Sad, really. Those poor boys were nearly eaten alive.
Kalevra
QUOTE
I've always thought the whole male dancer thing was weird. Unless they're really good, they don't move very sensually.


Word to that! As a guy with no formal dance training, I KNOW that there is NO way I could look even a fraction as sensual as any girl, men are simply NOT designed to shake it.....some can impress with moves, maybe salsa or the likes, but sensual dancing is for the pro's i.e the girlies.

Interestingly enough, I have been to Thailand on a number of occasions , on my own, I prefer lone travelling(there again in October) and thought it would be cool to go see one of the trannie cabaret's ...what a hoot, these girlie-boys KNOW how to dance, and are very sensual...you have to keep an open mind, but it is wy cool.
I had a chat with some of them after the show, not nit-picking them but I am curious by nature, and some of them revealed some things that I was not sure if they made me sad or happy. Some of them have had the full 'chop' and others are only half-way, but on the oestrogen to help with the changes. Many of them that have had the chop were sponsored/coerced by their parents. The parents see more worth in off-spring that can produce income, and that is waay easier for a girl that sells sex, rather than a son. A little freaky really, but that is what society has pushed them too...

I have never done phone-sex with a stranger before, dunno if it would appeal to me, I might find it funny before I found it arousing...will have to try it sometime..and AP, as far as being able to be the person who is the 'arouser' well, kudo's to you for being able to do it, what a great way to earn cash, I would defo start biggrin.gif my head off. No disprespect, just they way I am I 'spose.
anna k
I've done phone sex before (not for pay), when it's late at night and I'm bored, and it can turn me on to know that someone is getting off on my voice, regardless of what I look like. I never meet the guys, and while it can be sexy to work myself up and get into it, if the same guy was with me I would be repulsed by him touching me. It's like some kind of futuristic sex where exchanging fluids is dangerous and sex is exchanged without touching.

I've thought about working for a company, but it's a small secret vice of mine and I wouldn't want anyone I know to know that I was doing it.

I never liked male dancers either, especially if they do too many grinding/pelvis thrust moves in a teeny little banana hammock. I never liked beefed-up guys anyway, so I would be too embarassed if one dancer started shaking it in my face or wanting me to get into it.
wombat
Y'all forgetting about ROCKERS.
Sexy men on stage

Me and Pinkpoodle can set you straight!
auralpoison
No, we weren't forgetting about "rockers". We're talking about *strippers*, so there was nothing to set straight. Musicians simply had nothing to do with the conversation. A man shaking his ass behind a guitar is one thing & a man oiled up in a banana hammock thrusting his groin in your face is another.

I can't say I find the for pay phonesex particularly erotic, Kalevra. Rather boring actually. I was just about making money.

wombat
Now, now, I think my post fits under the topic of men dancing and moving on stage quite well.

*snark attack averted!*
auralpoison
Well, I'm sure it's not the first time you've ever been wrong.
kelkello
On the phone sex topic: I never thought I would find it remotely erotic until I got a boyfriend who has four full time at home kids. We rarely get to see each other alone. Now phone sex is a regular part of our relationship (granted, I'm not a sex worker, but if need be, I think I could make some extra cash on the side with this..hmmm). If you have someone who is good with words and can think on the fly, it's very nice.
wombat
Two related topics are being discussed -- one is male versus female strippers and one is whether men in general can move as good as women (Kalevra's post).

My well-informed contribution is that, indeed, men in general can.

In fact, there are three topic of conversation, simultaneously here: Strippers, phone sex, and whether men can be sexay when dancing.

For heck's sake, aural, keep up!

But then, it's not the first time you've been wrong. wink.gif
erinjane
Not to be rude about it, wombat, but this particular thread is about those of us involved in sex work in some form or another. While I don't really agree with Kalevra's overall opinion that only girls can move on stage, we were talking specifically about strippers and sex workers. The comment about rockers was a bit of a de-railment.
auralpoison
Exactly the point, Erinjane! Perhaps Wombat failed to see the title of the thread. Perhaps she/he also failed to read the posts in their entirety & chose to take the gist as a blanket statement of "no man can dance sexily," which was not the intent. I thought I'd made the point clearly, but apparently not. We were speaking *specifically* of sex workers (Again, see the title of the thread, couldn't be more simple, really.) & bringing musicians into it was indeed a definite derailment of the thread. We didn't need to be "set straight" about "rockers" because they have no real place in a discussion that caters solely to people that work in the sex industry. Ones' meager two cents versus the dollar bills for the gstring, if you will.
wombat
um, sorry you're so narrow in your definitions you have to *snap*, aural ...chillllll.

and I'm *so glad* I have chosen to ignore bum-face.

Wish I could do it twice.
katiebelle2882
I am going to give you a little tip wombat-dont try to out-snark AP. you will lose.
sallyglass
uuugh watching a straight man dance is like watching your sister strip at a stag party...
misspissed
interesting thread.

i've thought about domming quite a few times, and recently. unfortunately, the dungeon i have a connection with requires you to work a LOT of hours -- at the minimum 20 hours a week. with my regular 45+ hour a week job, theres no way i can do that now...and i need the day job for the health insurance.

i'm a burlesque performer, and it is indeed a grey area: while burlesque certainly involves stripping, it is more about the long slow tease-- and much of it borders on performance art, depending on the performer.

quite frankly, i would be very flattered to find out someone found me titallating enough to fantasize about me...unfortunately, unlike other kinds of stripping, there is *very little* money to be made in burlesque.
LoveMyPugs
This is just complete and total curiosity but exactly how does one become a phone sex operator?
auralpoison
See page two of this thread for your answer.
nohope
The Lusty Lady loses its innocence - Male workers are making waves at the feminist icon and trouble is brewing.

http://www.iww.org/en/node/2897
Jo Weldon
I feel like I'm coming out of nowhere--I used to lurk in this lounge quite a bit, and I've had to reregister in order to come out of lurkdom, so...

I was a stripper for fifteen years, and I've been a burlesque performer/performance artist on and off for decades. To me, a burlesque performer is not a meat-and-potatoes sex worker, although a mainstream stripper (i.e., working in a strip joint rather than a cabaret or theater) is. There are people who would say even a stripper isn't a sex worker.

I don't think there's any one good answer to this. I've also worked more hardcore sex industry jobs than stripping, so I don't need to establish "street cred," or whatever I'm trying to do, although I'm not saying I DON'T seek credibility--I do. I just sometimes feel like, having really busted my ass to get money out of men I wasn't attracted to, under conditions where I wasn't exploring my sensuality or expressing myself or even trying to have fun--at least, not as my primary motivation--that for me to say that what I do when I'm performing burlesque is sex work is a bit off.

Now, burlesque IS adult entertainment, so the lines are definitely blurry.

I am also most certainly not saying that one is more valid, useful, feminist, etc., than the other. I just do not feel the same need to seek out customers' desires doing burlesque as I did stripping in a strip joint. And that whole thing of either trying to figure out what they want, or hoping that they want what I'm willing to deal, was for me the essence of every transaction I really identified as sex work. Strip joint stripping felt much more like a service job than a performing job, although of course if I hadn't been able to perform in the clubs in addition to doing the service I might not have stuck with the job. But the service part of it was the core of the job.

I'm not getting it all perfect...but I've been thinking about this A LOT lately, and I definitely identify as a sex worker first and an artist second when I'm working in a strip joint. In burlesque, I'm an artist first and a sex worker second.


QUOTE(misspissed @ Sep 25 2006, 12:46 AM) *

interesting thread.

i've thought about domming quite a few times, and recently. unfortunately, the dungeon i have a connection with requires you to work a LOT of hours -- at the minimum 20 hours a week. with my regular 45+ hour a week job, theres no way i can do that now...and i need the day job for the health insurance.

i'm a burlesque performer, and it is indeed a grey area: while burlesque certainly involves stripping, it is more about the long slow tease-- and much of it borders on performance art, depending on the performer.

quite frankly, i would be very flattered to find out someone found me titallating enough to fantasize about me...unfortunately, unlike other kinds of stripping, there is *very little* money to be made in burlesque.

stargazer
very interesting thread. i've gone through the this thread.

i've been thinking about stripping in general. not as a job myself, but what drives women to take part in being a stripper. mainly those that work in clubs. i've worked with young adolescents (i'm a counselor), 17 y/o young women into cocaine who would usually talk about becoming a dancer. and i knew part of it grew from this culture. so, i've had issues with women making themselves so vulnerable for the sake of a drug habit. i know there are smart women in the business. but, there is a part that still seems like a women is playing into the white male patrichial system of things. no matter how many strippers say they are in control. and then there are those that eventually get into prostitution to make more money.

i really do enjoy burlesque. i enjoy the tease and seduction part of this type of entertainment. i'm very intrigued with dita von tease and all of the other legendary burlesque dancers. i think i like that the women have natural bodies in some way. i can't really explain it. plus, i like to tease and seduce my lovers...so it is really an extension on stage. pretty cool.

if i had to do sex work, then i would definitely dom. i would much rather make a man be the vulnerable one and me getting paid instead of the reverse. phone sex could be equated with this act as well. yeah, i like to be in control.

i'm interested to read what others take is on sex work. i'm glad there is a thread to discuss this topic. i think it definitely has to do with a hierarchy, money, politics, power/powerless....it is just transitioned into sex work. a very relevant topic since the beginning of time. i mean, look at all of the hub bub over mary magdalene...

oh, and i'm all for annie sprinkle. talk about a dom! she's awesome.

i think what is feminist about this topic is that we are openly discussing sex and any discussion regarding sex is still taboo...even today...i fear there is a loss of what sexuality is...but, that is for another time to discuss...
Jo Weldon
If you're working as a counselour, it could be (I'm not assuming that it is the case, just putting out there) that the "sample" of women you're meeting who want to strip are more representative of traumatized women, than of women who don't come in for counseling who also want to strip.

One of the biggest attractions of stripping is that you don't need a resume to get the job, BTW. Job hunting sucks. Stripping is way more pleasant than job hunting.

Just for the record, domme work is usually service work too.
http://www.maxfisch.com
You can read the reviews clients write about the dommes to get a fairly realistic idea of what the job commonly entails. And you can read the discussions to get a sense of how the dommes negotiate their marketing.

I felt that stripping was pretty dominant in some senses--if someone annoyed you, you weren't confined to a room with them for hours (even in the VIP room, as a stripper I could just step out when necessary), you move on. And they don't stand you up, tell you you're not wearing the right kind fo shoes for a "true dominant woman," blah blah blah. Prodomination looks very different than it is. And I do know.

I have many, many articles about stripping that provoked thoughts for me on my web page:
http://www.gstringsforever.com/page1.html

If you're interested in where feminism comes into sex work, you'll find a lot of people have given it plenty of thought and discussion when you see these articles--many of which I'm willing to bet you haven't seen before, and even less likely in the context that I present them.

It is remarkably easy to read what sex workers have to say these days! I love that!

QUOTE(stargazer @ Oct 8 2006, 08:34 PM) *

very interesting thread. i've gone through the this thread.

i've been thinking about stripping in general. not as a job myself, but what drives women to take part in being a stripper. mainly those that work in clubs. i've worked with young adolescents (i'm a counselor), 17 y/o young women into cocaine who would usually talk about becoming a dancer. and i knew part of it grew from this culture. so, i've had issues with women making themselves so vulnerable for the sake of a drug habit. i know there are smart women in the business. but, there is a part that still seems like a women is playing into the white male patrichial system of things. no matter how many strippers say they are in control. and then there are those that eventually get into prostitution to make more money.

i really do enjoy burlesque. i enjoy the tease and seduction part of this type of entertainment. i'm very intrigued with dita von tease and all of the other legendary burlesque dancers. i think i like that the women have natural bodies in some way. i can't really explain it. plus, i like to tease and seduce my lovers...so it is really an extension on stage. pretty cool.

if i had to do sex work, then i would definitely dom. i would much rather make a man be the vulnerable one and me getting paid instead of the reverse. phone sex could be equated with this act as well. yeah, i like to be in control.

i'm interested to read what others take is on sex work. i'm glad there is a thread to discuss this topic. i think it definitely has to do with a hierarchy, money, politics, power/powerless....it is just transitioned into sex work. a very relevant topic since the beginning of time. i mean, look at all of the hub bub over mary magdalene...

oh, and i'm all for annie sprinkle. talk about a dom! she's awesome.

i think what is feminist about this topic is that we are openly discussing sex and any discussion regarding sex is still taboo...even today...i fear there is a loss of what sexuality is...but, that is for another time to discuss...

stargazer
thanks much jo.

it is not that i've seriously considered doing stripping. and dom is more entertainment on a mindfuck level for me. i know it is sex work too. but i like to think in a "what if" scenario...i try to put myself in other people's shoes, really...i try not to make judgments about what puts people in certain positions 'cause i think, "hey, that could be me." thanks for sharing your insight with me.

i will take time to read the articles you have shown me. i'm always willing to hear another person's point of view.

chris rock said that if your daughter is wearing the clear glass heels, then you've messed up as a father. i thought that was a funny comment and inisightful. everyone has endured some kind of trauma...look i've just sublimated my own trauma into being a psychologist...although there is a dom/sadist role in some way connected with being a doctor...roles Freud has numerous writings about...

Jo Weldon
I didnt mean to argue, I was just offering some related links. You would get a totally different set of related links from an anti-sex-work person--nobody can really have the last word on this subject, including me.

Re Chris Rocks insightfulness, I found the remark fairly offensive. But that doesnt mean hes wrong. It also doesnt mean hes right! From my perspective, it could mean "You are the result of failed parenting. You are damaged. So sad about you."

A friend of mine, Katherine Frank, wrote an article called "Keeping Her Off the Pole" in which she talks about being a former stripper with a daughter of her own and considering how she would feel if the daughter grew up to strip. You can read this article in "Flesh for Fantasy," a book of essays from strippers in which I also have an article.

For me, the only honest response to sex work is ambivalence. Love it, hate it, hate it, love it. And thats the truth.

QUOTE(stargazer @ Oct 8 2006, 10:11 PM) *

thanks much jo.

it is not that i've seriously considered doing stripping. and dom is more entertainment on a mindfuck level for me. i know it is sex work too. but i like to think in a "what if" scenario...i try to put myself in other people's shoes, really...i try not to make judgments about what puts people in certain positions 'cause i think, "hey, that could be me." thanks for sharing your insight with me.

i will take time to read the articles you have shown me. i'm always willing to hear another person's point of view.

chris rock said that if your daughter is wearing the clear glass heels, then you've messed up as a father. i thought that was a funny comment and inisightful. everyone has endured some kind of trauma...look i've just sublimated my own trauma into being a psychologist...although there is a dom/sadist role in some way connected with being a doctor...roles Freud has numerous writings about...

maddy29
bump for ah, someone smile.gif
sukouyant
Ah, I never post much anymore, but I wanted to draw attention to this controversy that's been happening with a breast cancer charity in Canada - and tacitly bump this thread.

Dancers have been holding this fundraiser for breast cancer for years, but this year their money is being refused by the charity. Apparently after a CBC broadcast about the event, people complained to the BCS about the source of this particular donation (nekkid dancing *omg*).

This is the article: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/...tml#skip300x250

Exotic dancers' 'stigma' too much for charity
Thursday, February 8, 2007
CBC News

The Breast Cancer Society of Canada has rejected the offer of thousands of dollars from a fundraising group of exotic dancers in Vancouver.

Exotic Dancers for Cancer holds an annual charity event in memory of a former dancer who lost her life to the disease.

Ex-dancer Trina Ricketts received an e-mail from the Breast Cancer Society declining a donation from her group of exotic dancers.

Last year, the event raised $6,000.

However, former dancer Trina Ricketts said the society sent her an e-mail declining the money this year, because its major donors did not support a connection to exotic dancers.

She says the society has taken the group's contributions in the past.

"I really feel that it's a strong indication of the degree of the stigma that exotic dancers experience when an organization doesn't even want to be associated with them for fear of experiencing the same stigma."

Ricketts said her group is still looking for a cancer charity that will accept a donation.

The annual event will be held next month at a downtown hotel.
erinjane
I heard about that. I think it's ridiculous. Who cares where the money comes from? They want to raise money in honour of a friend, why would you refuse?

LoveMyPugs
F. U. B. A. R.

it really is!
sukouyant
QUOTE(erinjane @ Feb 10 2007, 10:26 PM) *

I heard about that. I think it's ridiculous. Who cares where the money comes from? They want to raise money in honour of a friend, why would you refuse?



I believe they're refusing because other funders have complained about the association with exotic dancers.

It does matter where money comes from, but I think the focus of these complainants on exotic dancers is prejudicial in the worst way and simply wrong. What are they trying to say?
auralpoison
I wondered if anybody else saw this. Made my hackles sit up & turn red.

http://www.ocweekly.com/news/news/illegally-park-ed/26661/
tesao
suk: what are they trying to say? sex is BAD. sex is not good for AMURICUNS.

you know what i want to retort? FUCK THEM.

ill got gains from petroleum companies are okay? NOT.

it is okay to let the earth die while the USA contributes? NOT.

sex is normal, human, desired by everyone i have ever known? YES.

does the $ have to come from illegal gain? NOT.

fuck. fuck all of these hypocrites. they want it as much as the next person. but the gods forbid that their constituencies know about it.

asssssholes do VEX ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LoveMyPugs
Awful shit in this world is all I can say.
Makes me sad and angry.
Terrible, terrible, terrible!
snafooey
Is there a number we can contact to express our outrage?

If it's not already making the rounds, I want to forward that article to every feminist organization I know - not that it's a surprise that this sort of thing happens in general, but for it to go to trial with that kind of outcome? I'm sick to my stomach.

Re: the Breast Cancer Society - it is important where the money comes from, but by refusing these women they are basically putting them on the same level as, say, the KKK, a refusal that would cause no one to bat an eyelash. Telling a group of working women that they can't honour their friend through money they earned honestly? Unbelievable.
girltrouble
aural, that article pisses me off too. how can the over look all of the "coincidences" and what excuse can he possibly have for taking his dick out. grrrr! it makes me so mad. i am such a hardliner when it comes to things like this. if you are an officer of the state, you should be well above reproach. the idea that you are tailing someone for your kicks in a police car should get you fined and thrown in jail.

up here in the pacific northwest there have been a steady stream of little scandals with cops looking at porn in their squadcars (they all have internet access), if someone did what that cop did i would hope that the city and the state would throw the book at them several times over. that is so not ok.
sukouyant
Oh Aural, that story makes me wanna holler!
i-am-jan
WHY oh WHY - does society still look down upon strippers - even the "GENTLEMEN" (?!?) who go into these "GENTLEMEN's" clubs themselves do it. But no one ever says anything to MALES for having questionable morals, hanging out at these places when they're married & have girlfriends, etc.

Heck, even mens' wives make excuses for them - act like it's "harmless," "okay", "normal" for men to frequent these clubs and you know how we always make excuses for men who check out hardcore porn too. Or guys who go to sex workers, we excuse them because they're "lonely" or "alone" or whatever.

It just goes to show who has the power in society and who is the powerless. The powerless are to the point where they *expect* bad behavior for those in power - even to the point where we *make excuses* for them and their behavior.

I wish that hadn't happened to that girl. So many women (myself included) find it radical/feminist to work as a stripper - but society will never let it be that. Men and society simply WANT to dislike women for doing this. Because it still *scares* the shit out of them.
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