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chachaheels
Directly under the influence of this thread, I was in the supermarket last Friday and I saw that the September Vogue was on the stands. In the spirit of who I was in the 80's, I picked it up (the September Vogue was always several inches thick, like a bible! A MUST!).

So: except for the shoes by the new designer for Balenciaga, there's quite a lot in that issue that is right out of the 1980's. Wide pants a la Catherine Hepburn; cigarette-legged jeans and pants worn with big, pouffy, wide shouldered tops; and a return of the Japanese post-apocalypse pieced-together-layers look I remember from designers like Comme des Garcons and Rei Kawokubo (that no one I knew actually wore, other than maybe one piece at a time).
It was like a time warp, first in buying that magazine, and then in looking through it.

That is probably both okay and bad at the same time, I guess.
freckleface2727
I might have to buy that cha cha, just to see for myself.


I so heart houndstooth.
like, in '89 my favorite blouse was this black & white chiffon creation w/ some sort of flat-lying flounce down the front, maybe poet cuffs too (?).
it sounds horrid but I used to pair it w/ a red wool pencil skirt & heels & it was totally classic.
pearls, Of Course. funny thing is, I'm 35 and don't dress that sharp now.

how sad.

I bought a pair of houndstooth flats w/ a tiny kitten heel last year and am just waiting... paitently.. for the right occassion to wear them.

musicfit I watched the funkytown video!
they looked like a A-HA kind of band, not at all one to do a song that reminds me of MoTown.
chachaheels
I know what you mean, freckle. I kinda wish I had the clothes I did back then, but it took so much time to pull off the looks and I just want to relax and be a lot less complicated now.

I might check back into those wide legged pants. They were extremely glamourous, with not so much fuss. Sigh.
wombat
chacha: I have copies of Details magazines from the 80s, in black and white. I bet you remember it!

The whole point of 80s club wear -- as opposed to 80s, like, mall and school wear -- was to be heavy and geometric and revive vintage and all that. Texture, geometry, big jewelry.

It's hard to remember that aspect where it was some lovely Theda Bara thing and not, just, campy and stupid looking. The other thing was to see some iridescent beads or iridescent taffeta or rhinestones flashing suddenly out of the dark in a big artist's loft party.
chachaheels
Oooh! I Do remember Details! I remember making j-card covers for all my mixed tapes from cut outs from Details and Spy. The clothes in Details were...unwearable, but the designs really read into the future (I am still recognizing some aspects of those bizarre images in clothes people wear today). Anyway, the articles were good.

QUOTE
The whole point of 80s club wear -- as opposed to 80s, like, mall and school wear -- was to be heavy and geometric and revive vintage and all that. Texture, geometry, big jewelry.

It's hard to remember that aspect where it was some lovely Theda Bara thing and not, just, campy and stupid looking. The other thing was to see some iridescent beads or iridescent taffeta or rhinestones flashing suddenly out of the dark in a big artist's loft party.


That's exactly it! You said it precisely. I never really saw the mall/school wear because that was not where I was "at" at the time...for some reason, I really did spend a lot of time doing the club thing while studying, and that's what I remember. It could all be really gorgeous...and then at some point the whole mall look started coming into the clubs, and that was the end of that.
wombat
Yeah, and you know that most times you see "80's NIGHT!!"

you're going to hear MTV music, not, like, Nick Cave and Lena Lovich. Sad.

We do have a place in Boston that plays Joy Division and stuff.
chachaheels
Lena Lovich! My brother just brought over all my old vinyl albums (he had them in his basement), and Lena was in the batch! Do you remember STIFF records?

(I occasionally still bring out and listen to old Cocteau Twins and Elizabeth Fraser's work with This Mortal Coil, especially that cover she did of Tim Buckley's Song of the Siren; and once I start I really just keep playing them for weeks. That is, until M.ChaCha's patience is exhausted).

Do you ever go to the Joy Division playing bar?
auralpoison
OMG! Stiff! The early home of the Adverts, Elvis Costello, the Damned, Madness, Ian Dury, the Plasmatics, Kirsty MacColl, the Pogues, & my beloved Nick Lowe. They had the best adverts & double entendre loaded slogans. "If it ain't Stiff it ain't worth a fuck!" They also had the earliest incarnation of one of my favourite bands, Motörhead!
chachaheels
I know! A lot of really great artists were working with them. And I can't believe you remember Nick Lowe, too. He's timeless. People should be recording his songs even now, they're so brilliant (and I guess everyone covered them back then, too).

auralpoison
Nick Lowe! "So It Goes" was Stiff's first single. You know, he's the one that actually wrote "(What's So Funny Bout) Peace Love & Understanding"? Even more interesting, some band covered that song for the Bodygaurd soundtrack, it sold millions, & ole Nick found himself a millionaire that can now do whatever he wants. Cool, non?

Do you remember Bomp? They're still around & still putting out great stuff! I realize that I am more in the Subpop age range, but I remember discovering those labels in high school & thinking they were way cooler than anything else around.
wombat
Yeah!! such great music. Me and my guy still have a lot of vinyl. Orchestral Manoevres and Ultravox and Wire and all of Pete Shelley's stuff.

We go to that little club every Friday. Sometimes we skip but .. usually go.

There seems to be a rule that they must play at least one Morrissey song per evening.

chachaheels
I feel so old telling you this, Wombat, but I remember going to see Ultravox in concert.
The three of them stood in a row on stage, each behind some kind of computer instrument. The precursor to the laptop concert! Midge Ure looked much smaller than I thought he'd be, but still very good.

And you have to play Morrissey. He was so of the age. What do people wear at that club? Do they dress up, or is it all just very casual cause everyone's our age?

Aural, Nick Lowe's songs made a lot of people famous. I know he taught Elvis Costello how to write pop tunes (Costello's own admission, Lowe was a good formulaic writer...used a formula but he was very, very creative); he and Costello wrote a vast number of tunes together, some of which Costello recorded and others which were done by other performers. Remember the tune Girls Talk? It was covered by at least one girl band of the time, and I know it inspired Bellinda Carlisle's Our Lips are Sealed tune, a big hit for the Go Gos. That was one he and Costello co-wrote. I'm happy to hear he's made a fortune on the songs alone, though I loved the album I had where recorded his own work himself. The songs were so good....no one sings his songs the way he does. I also know he's still writing and was touring not too long ago. Very low key touring, but touring none the less.

Anyway...Bomp records--I don't think I remember seeing very many Bomp records. I'm a little confused, because I knew of a band with a name that was probably the same or similar to the label...and they released a tune called "Charlton Heston put his Vest on" and had this very funny video out during that time. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong? Or, really, I'm hoping you can remember and set me straight on that? Is that one of Bomp's artists from the time? If they were (they were originally Irish musicians, who'd moved to the US)..I always wondered what happened to them. They were something else.

wombat
Warning: only somewhat related RANT not entirely meant to apply to people on current thread but is about "music discussions"

As a general topic: I don't know about this whole "old" versus "young" thing where music is concerned. People seem COMPELLED to make these "age statements" whenever they talk about music and I find it bogus.

I know about and like Jimi Hendrix even though he died when I was a little kid. I can listen to and KNOW ABOUT Ledbelly and Woody Guthrie even though I am not 90 years old -- why bother to say it, the whole point of recording is so that it lasts forever.

I can listen to Franz Ferdinand or Postal Service or Scissor Sisters even though I'm not in my twenties any more -- big deal!! Yeah, I'll be into new stuff -- if it's any good!

This is a rant that's been getting on my nerves for awhile: someone will say "I don't KNOW about such and such, but then, I was *too young* for it!" Well, lah de dah, and, no excuse, because ever since i was a teenager I would find out what musicians I liked were influenced by and go dig it up.

It's like there is an attitude that you can only KNOW about music that was handed to you by the mainstream or trendy among the indie/alternative when you were age 15 to 25 and you can't be expected to KNOW about anything that happened before "your day" or anything else that was happening that you go back to later, or anything after. GAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!

.....

oops, sorry, I had a moment.
That's not against you, either, chacha, that's just -- been getting on my nerves for awhile.
Some of the kids at the cool club night ONLY like the Strokes COPY of "Marquee Moon" and Richard Hell -- if you know about the originals, you must be too old.

ohmy.gif mad.gif

Re dressing up -- there are a fair amount of 80s looks with the old and the young and both old and young peope dance, which is cool and fairly unusual. There is not the Details, L'Amour, Goth, Cindy Lauper thing going on exactly, it's more, black and white neo punk, pyramid belts, cuffs, ORRRRR off shoulder sweaters in teal or copper or something -- some neo mod, some prep, some cute-black-shirt with jeans...

I like them, the people there, you know.

ps. My guy and I are bringing two more *middle-aged weirdos* there to dance soon. wink.gif
chachaheels
I get what you're saying, Wombat, but there is something to be said for the experience of music as a cultural phenomenon, especially if you've been around at the time when a tune or a performer made an impact. It does have a kind of "communal perspective change" effect that is a little different from digging up a musician from an earlier time and listening to that performer now. There's no reason the artist and the art's significance wouldn't be felt even now, but if it were experienced "in the context of its time", then it would be experienced differently.

It's just an entirely, unreproduceable aspect of the music; but no matter. Us listening to older music now produces something similar, especially if that music "catches on" again in a time far out of its origin. There's no way Hendrix would have known what his work would have done to guitar players who are learning and playing now; but there's no way the guitarists who are experiencing him now could have experienced what he brought about and how he affected the world around him back when he was alive, and big. The context in which Hendrix was alive and creative won't ever come again: though he can be part of the individual modern musician's context and interpretation on a far more removed and limited scale.

And then, by extension, because of the type of cultural experience we've lived through, we now experience the "new" and "up and coming" musicians very differently from the way their peers experience them. We can listen to Franz Ferdinand and the like, and love them--but they're signifying something completely different to us in the here and now than they do to people who are in their peer group--those twentysomethings you were writing about. We just bring a whole bunch of other experience and knowledge the young ones won't have to the music, both individually and as a group of people who all lived in the context of our culture at a particular time together, and for a particular length of time.

auralpoison
Okay. Waaaaay too much hostility/drama for me & I'm not a retarded nine year old or particularly age-ist. *AP backs cautiously away with hands held up in supplication.* I hear... some other thread... calling me.
chachaheels
Whoa--what? Where did that come from? No one is accusing anyone of being agist or incapable of appreciating something because it happened before they were born. I think Wombat's making the OPPOSITE point. All I meant to point out is that the experiences are different, but no less valid.

Nevermind.
wombat
well, it's ambiguous issue.

Sometimes I agree with chacha about the context being important and sometimes I think the artist transcends context and the people that make it through the entertainment business complex and still have something to *say* are going to last forever independent of context.

That's the whole "does the artist inform society or does society inform the artist" debate which will never be solved. smile.gif

and my peeving about people who, essentially, feel defensive in the "know about music" competition so they have to say, essentially, well, you're OLD anyway.

Nothing against you, though, ap, as far as I know. Did you make some "before my time" comment somewhere in scroll-down land? If you like Motorhead, you must be cool wink.gif

chachaheels
I really only think context is important in the way that it makes a unique kind of experience for the people involved, that's all. Like, I remember the big deal around Saturday Night Fever, and the huge album sales, and the fact that absolutely everyone was playing the music from that movie everywhere you went. I remember that it influenced people's appearance, and that the film also skewed people's point of view about certain things--whether negatively or positively, no matter: everyone had something to say about those issues and everyone commented. I remember that at the time because I was just coming into my teens and it was everywhere around me, in the same way that a similar big cultural phenomenon would be experienced now. Someone who is 13 now who pulls out that old soundtrack and hears it for the first time (cause a lot of it is being played again now, and people are starting to cover the songs again, in pop) isn't going to have that same experience at all--not the "People Are Talking About" stuff, not the ubiquitousness of the images or the music, or the way it affected the way people spoke or looked. Though they may love or hate the music and experience it for themselves entirely differently, all they really are experiencing is the music, out of its time context, since they'll never be able to "get" alot of its immediate, historical references anyway--cause they were not there. But they can certainly bring their own lens of experience to it now, and it's an entirely different experience from one I've ever had or will have with the same music, again.

As for older performers and relevance...I'm reminded of people like Tom Waits, who said he started to dress and talk and listen to the music of "old people" when he was a teenager, cause he liked it all and he wanted to be like them..."old people". He found what was relevant in what he was adopting and experiencing, and transcended it by making it into something that he could express alone, part of his own acute and clear artistic vision. He's been recording and touring for over 25 years now: and he's always relevant and influential and artistically powerful. And there are all kinds of artists just like him--older than he is and younger than he is too. I don't think the same thing can be said of others whose careers are just constant rehashings of old stuff, or trading on a glorified reputation that isn't sustained (and I do include those boys in the whole SuperNova group in that category...they can't seem to articulate what they're about, what they want to do next, but they're in for the very well paying ride; and they're coasting on some of their last goodwill cause they just can't understand what some of the people they've invited to work with them have come to offer...and they can be plain old mean about it. These are "dinosaurs" in the real sense: not really interested in evolving, just in capitalizing on their own pasts without having to make it relevant to what's taking place now).

If this is the stuff that sounds hostile or contemptuous or ageist, well, sorry if it offends, but it wasn't my intention to be any of those things with my expression here, just reflective of my own thoughts and opinions.

wombat
I don't think you're ageist (((chacha))).

I wondered about the basis of your dinosaur comment, not ageism but perhaps the musical backgrounds of the guys. The way they're being on Rockstar Supernova makes me question them. In my opinion, they could actually be meaner. But it should be on the basis of them trying to make the singers be gutsy and bring a unique thing. So far, I think Dilana is the only one who has a real self and they're nuts if they don't take her. I started out with a good attitude towards them, but if they're seriously sitting there praising those *boring!!* guys -- just cause they're guys I guess?

Cause Toby acts like he's just one step above "moron." Maybe he's actually smart and it's just his shamblind fake humility and the way he stares off into space -- but reeeeallllly.
chachaheels
I have been watching the SuperNova people for a while now, but honestly it's because I'm getting addicted to the mocking disbelief I feel when I tune in. I've thought about it and thought about it and it's really clear that these 3 "musicians" have questionable ability as performers and songwriters--and they really have not articulated themselves well about what kind of band they want to be. Their original music is--well, there's a lot of words for it, but really it's all (and I'm being kind) forgettable. Some of it was offensive in the extreme (that first song that they made Dilana perform with the strippers? Where do I start with the sexism and racism of the lyrics, teamed with Gilby's big posturing on gyrating women, ironically foisted on the female performer they claim to want in their band?); the rest...well, I've forgotten them all since there wasn't anything compelling or even non-cliche about the lyrics, and the music itself was devoid of all hooks...and none of it sounds definitive--it could be anybody playing that music, it's so generic. So: what do these guys want to sound like? What do they want to look like? Who do they see as their audience? None of these questions have been answered, and next week is the end of the whole competition. And the big "show" is a little concert in a venue that seats about 1600 people, and they seem to have to keep adding attractions to the tour to sell the tickets...

So: with that kind of ambiguity and apparent insecurity, they've been putting people down or praising people based purely on personal bias, and I hated the way they'd criticise one person for doing something then turn around and absolutely laud another for doing the exact same thing. Like, last night they told Storm they couldn't ignore that she'd been in the bottom 3 "so many times" (actually, that was her second time in the bottom 3) so they had to let her go...and yet Dilana had been in the bottom 3 exactly the same number of times and lately she's been performing very poorly, and admittedly cannot write lyrics or music!

At that point, M. ChaCha declared, "Tommy Lee's high." He did it dispassionately, cause he himself has a history as a rawk musician and former longhaired guitarist/drummer/vocalist...he just looked up from something he was reading, squinted at the TV, and said it; then he went back to what he was doing.

Then, they all started to beg Storm so that they could play on her track when she recorded "WTF is Ladylike"! First Dave, then Tommy Lee, and then Jason...wait a minute! If all you guys want to play and record with her cause she's such a great performer, a seasoned professional, and a great songwriter...why isn't she winning this ham contest? I thought you were looking for someone to do this with! I thought that was the whole point of the show! If you all want to play with her and you like her sound and you're all gung ho about it, but you know its not the sound you want for SuperNova, why was she selected to be in the contest at all? Ambivalence everywhere you look. But in the meantime, Verizon's giving them all a nice big paycheque for getting folks to use their pricey text messaging services; all they've got to do is a limited tour and release one CD and they're not putting a lot of effort into producing that well, and they're done. Where is the artistry in that?

And that's when I noticed that they were all, every last one of those grandfathers, high. On national TV. And they clearly weren't aware of what they were doing or saying anymore.

I was doing laundry in a laundromat last week and the guy who owns the laundromat brought out some magazines for me to read while I was waiting...one was a GQ from early in the summer featuring a fashion spread with Tommy Lee. I had to look at it--first of all, the spread was called "Rock and Roll Seersucker", so how could I not? and it was accompanied by a bit of an interview with him. In it, he said he was looking forward to SuperNova's contest, and he stated that they were looking for a guy who was cool, not trying too hard, and a really good musician...with his own following and lots of girlies. Something about that statement made me realise he, at least, would only consider a male lead--and now watching the show I feel sure they'd never intended to select anyone but a man to front their band. So why make the "big show" about Dilana, and lead her on? Why then build up the disastrous editing they've been giving her, to make her look like a self-centred, self-obsessed musical incompetent? Psycho Killer indeed. I get this really strong vibe that they think the "kind of rock they do just doesn't have room for a woman" (unless she's a stripper from a burlesque joint that they've paid to grind around the lead singer). Which, finally, leads me to the conclusion that they're all dinosaurs in various stages of mental decline, but all, still, lost somewhere in what they think was their great youth.

How I do go on, no?
wombat
It's funny you mentioned Saturday Night Fever, chacha, cause I was thinking about it just yesterday!! I'd found it when I was cleaning my house for a party. I was thinking there "You Should Be Dancing" song with its eerie subtlety (can't spell anymore!) is so similar to Marvin Gaye's "Keep on Dancin'" and got the extreme urge to listen to it.

But -- as the okayers know, stuff like that has been happening to me a lot lately.

chachaheels
What, the coincidental happenstances of synchronicity? I love when that happens. And look at you, just in time for a party!
Now when you play it for your guests, it will mean something "extra" for you, that perhaps someone else will have experienced as well.

(I never made that connection between that bee gees tune and marving gaye...hmm...)
wombat
psst!... Universe! 80s heads!

Get on to PiL -- I found the metal box last night! OMG!
Linton Kwesi Johnson Forces of Victory
and
The Gun Club Fire of Love

Plus my Sugarhill Gang, Kurtis Blow, and Kraftwerk, of course.

Afrikaa Bambaata about Kraftwerk: I couldn't believe they were white!

???
chachaheels
Linton Kwesi...jesus! You've been busy!

It really is funny you're finding all this stuff...

(ps were you a Joe Jackson fan? Here's a secret: I went to see the Who only because I thought Pete Townsend was gorgeous, so the show would be tolerable: but mostly it was because Joe Jackson was opening for them).

wombat
Nope. Nothing against him, just didn't explore it. There was so much going on.

But really, there is always more to know. That's why I think it's weird when people get defensive about not knowing about certain music. Or, about knowing it.

There's always more. Share.

One time one of my roommates was playing some noodly sixties blues jammy thing (that was actually kind of bearable, though!) and when I asked her who it was, she said The Rolling Stones! With great contempt .. and yet it wasn't an obvious track -- or even one of their more obsure ones, like the Performance soundtrack, that I had. There weren't even any vocals on it.

SOOOOO?? Share and share alike without the attitude.

Just one of the things that makes me glad I haven't had roommates for a number of years.

I was remembering how many dorm rooms had both the Sex Pistols and Bee Gees. They were both popular! at the same TIME!

Kinda throws the competition for "voice of our generation" outta whack, now, doesn't it.
chachaheels
QUOTE
I was remembering how many dorm rooms had both the Sex Pistols and Bee Gees. They were both popular! at the same TIME!

Kinda throws the competition for "voice of our generation" outta whack, now, doesn't it.


That's so true! But look what that says about the 70's, though; and living in that time. Someone could own and love both types of music. Something about that era produced both expressions--and both expressions could be embraced even if they seemed so disparate. Maybe it's not "the voice of the generation" (so simplistic and a little too self-assured), but the phenomenon sure does speak about the time very well.
pinkpoodle
"I went to see the Who only because I thought Pete Townsend was gorgeous" Wha?! Explain.
chachaheels
"Wha?" I liked the way Pete Townsend looked. He had that dark hair and grey blue eyes look that's very attractive. He later opened his right winged mouth, however (or, I've since come to appreciate that his politics turn me right off) and I've never even thought of him since.

Anyway, I wasn't much of Who fan, but it was one of their multitude of farewell tours, I had a new boyfriend I was really having a great time with (and he got his hands on some tickets), and Joe Jackson was opening. I didn't want to miss Joe.
pinkpoodle
Okay, yeah, I guess he had nice eyes.

The Who is one of my favorite bands of all time, and I loves me some John Entwistle. R.I.P.
sassygrrl
Heard Joe Jackson at a restaurant last night, and thought of this thread....
So loved him. And I love this thread!! smile.gif

Sugarhill Gang was one of the first records I bought...
duplessix
The other night I dreamt that I was making out with Roger Daltry but I kept calling him Pete. Hmmm...

I LOVE 80's music. Right now I'm listening to a homemade cd with Alphaville, Laura Branigan, George Michael, and lots of other goodies. Probably my fave. 80's song is "Birthday" by the Sugarcubes. Oh, and "Lucky Number" by Lene Lovich. And "West End Girls"!!!

chachaheels
Bjork was about 15 years old when she recorded that with the Sugarcubes...I've got a copy of it in Icelandic, something M. ChaCha dug up for a mixed CD he made up for me a while ago, too. (You can actually hear what has to be the sound of a turntable and needle on my recording...I kinda miss that!)


QUOTE
The other night I dreamt that I was making out with Roger Daltry but I kept calling him Pete. Hmmm...


I know I've had this dream before! It's telling. PinkPoodle, sorry if it looked like I was casting aspersions on TheWho: I just don't think I was ready for them when I was younger, and I've never quite figured out why. I completely understand why they've become so popular again, though; and even tho' the politics are wrong I still think Pete's one attractive looking man. Especially in a great suit.
wombat
Bjork. awesome.

I think it's time for a Gun Club revival. Or at least I can give a copy to my cool Southern friend.

Oh! Guilty pleasure : BowWowWow.
chachaheels
BowWowWow...I wonder what happened to that lead singer--she was very, very hyped. Probably the first hypersexualized underaged popstarlet, ever.

She'd be, um, my age now.

Which brought to mind Malcolm McLaren. Does anyone remember his album "Fans"? Where he covered opera arias and added rap to the music, then released them with videos that visually alluded to famous old films?
Kalevra
QUOTE
Linton Kwesi Johnson - Forces of Victory


Sheeesh, I thought I was the only person left alive who digs that still. I have the Reggae Greats one, kinda like an independent greatest hits thing, got a lot of the best tracks
Sonny's Lettah
Street 66
Making History...

GOOD.DUB!
thepointybird
QUOTE(chachaheels @ Sep 12 2006, 04:09 PM) *

BowWowWow...I wonder what happened to that lead singer--she was very, very hyped. Probably the first hypersexualized underaged popstarlet, ever.

She'd be, um, my age now.

Which brought to mind Malcolm McLaren. Does anyone remember his album "Fans"? Where he covered opera arias and added rap to the music, then released them with videos that visually alluded to famous old films?


ChaCha, I remember that Mme Butterfly song he did - was it from that album? It was soooo good!

My fave 80s tunes have to be West End Girls, Small Town Boy by the Communards and of course, the amazing, the awesome.... Total Eclipse of the Heart. Sigh!
chachaheels
Mme. Butterfly was definitely on Fans. That was a great tune, wasn't it? Made everyone blubber.

And, oh wow, the Communards. LOVED them.
mouni4
Music in the 80's - mmhhh
One of my first albums was Adam and the Ants (Kings of the wild frontier). That was fun, though nearly no one else listened to it.
Who else was around then and on my record player?
Madness, the Jam, Talking Heads - one of the coolest music-movies I saw on big screen is "Stop making sense"

And Linton Kwesi Jonson: Does somebody know the poems ( for example on his double-live album, the ones only read, without music - great stuff!!)

And let me not forget great african musicians like Fela Kuti - awesome!!!
chachaheels
The Jam! I recently saw Paul Weller perform during some televised british awards ceremony, he's greying now and a little more fleshed out than he was in the past, but still handsome and still full of energy.

On another, more frivolous note: Lukas Rossi won and no one is surprised; and everyone's playing on everyone else's record. Now please make the hysteria over this show go away. Please.
wombat
Yesss! Chacha! This was going to be the first place I WENT here today. But I got distracted. As usual.

I CANNOT BELIEVE they took Lukas! That dumpy, ugly little runt that *vomits* out songs!

They just want someone stupid and goofy and malleable, like Weiland. Ack!!

I can tell that Newsted was shaking his head violently and Tommy Lee looked really freaking smug - whereas Navarro and Gilby had the *taste* to know that Dilana would have been much better. Gilby -- who seems like kind of a sweetie -- looked stunned and really bummed out.

I hope they do actually do an album with her -- that would rule.

Lukas... ugh.
chachaheels
Yes, but there were many clues and signs that Lukas was the one--if not him, then at least a male lead.
TLee actually did declare that in an article in GQ back at the beginning of the summer, and let's face it, hard rock "tours" don't make as much money as they once did, and it is a masculine (with, yes, a lot of play on gender) aesthetic. I think they were trying to cut the risk of not making money with this venture. After all, their "tour" is in mostly small venues, they don't really have a viable CD yet, and they've had to resort to adding acts onto their tour in order to attract buyers. Even if it does sell out, that's an awful lot more people to pay out from the proceeds than it would have been if only 4 performers and their entourage were to be involved.

These guys said from the start that they were out to do a "rock tour", and it was so clear they wouldn't be able to wrap their minds around the idea of being profitable with a woman leading them (remember the lyric content of their very crappy "originals", specifically the really oinky one Dilana was made to sing? Humiliating!)

Dilana's well out of that ugly situation, that's for sure. She's not my favourite by a long shot, but I think she's far more talented than a room full of strippers dressed like the "babes" from a KISS album cover circa 1975 would warrant.

This "contest" was very problematic, in that you wished that the most capable artists would not win, cause the actual band he'd get stuck with doesn't sound promising.

Oh, yeah, wonder what they'll call themselves now that they've been forced to stop using the name "Supernova". See? Another unforeseen expense that's going to cost $$$ to fix.

And now, I'm forced to ask: is that an actual photo of you, Wombat, wearing what looks like a blazer from a catholic school uniform behind that holly?
wombat
Most tours have more than one act, I've noticed.

Since you're "forced" to ask:
Someone who looks like me.

Certainly not a catholic school blazer.

Holly -- from odd and quite charming dream about living in museum and holly being protective. I use imagery from my dreams often.

And is that you, the page of wands? What do you intend to indicate with that particular avatar?
chachaheels
That, my dear, is no page. That is a Donna. Specifically, La Donna di Bastone, or Mazze. The Lady of Clubs, from the Sicilian playing card deck. The suit is right--but a page is never the same as a Queen.

I have a similar last name, but my family background is not Sicilian; and though playing cards come from every region in Italy it's only this region's cards which feature a Donna who looks quite a lot like me. Hairstyle especially, but as my mother never fails to point out--the outfit looks a lot like what I would put on in the 80's.

Though I'd never wave a bat around, even after my mother's snark.

And yes, my catholic school blazer was exactly that colour. Once I got to the grade eleven, tuition paying stage: before that, it was plaid. With red lapels.

wombat
That's quite unusual - a queen just standing there without any trimmin's.
Cool, though.

Nothing against catholic school, since my dad and some of our friends were catholic, and there was a cool neo-medievalist monastery near us (trappists) but, eek! I went to tough, demanding, competitive conform-o public schools in an affluent suburb. It was all abot SATs and college admissions and bringing your classmate's head home on a hockey stick. McYuckity.

I like the Marseilles deck a lot. It was the first one that was distributed among the masses rather than just the aristocracy. I always got a positive reading from it, but it started getting tattered to the point that I knew one card from another from the back. Not so good when you're trying to hear a message other than just what you already know, hope and fear.

The most lovely one I have is the Etteilla deck. But it's got a rather mean spirit. Almost every card is described with a negative meaning. Figures it was Jimmy Page's favorite deck.

Lately I've been using Rider-Waite with an interpretation book from Haindl. And sometimes Barbara Walker's or Rachel Pollock's.

/derail!!

sorry, 80s fiends.

I DID just sign all the classic "brat pack" 80s movies onto my Netflix queue! I was too old and too cool for them when they came out. I look forward to discussing them with y'all wink.gif

That's quite unusual - a queen just standing there without any trimmin's.
Cool, though.

Nothing against catholic school, since my dad and some of our friends were catholic, and there was a cool neo-medievalist monastery near us (trappists) but, eek! I went to tough, demanding, competitive conform-o public schools in an affluent suburb. It was all abot SATs and college admissions and bringing your classmate's head home on a hockey stick. McYuckity.

I like the Marseilles deck a lot. It was the first one that was distributed among the masses rather than just the aristocracy. I always got a positive reading from it, but it started getting tattered to the point that I knew one card from another from the back. Not so good when you're trying to hear a message other than just what you already know, hope and fear.

The most lovely one I have is the Etteilla deck. But it's got a rather mean spirit. Almost every card is described with a negative meaning. Figures it was Jimmy Page's favorite deck.

Lately I've been using Rider-Waite with an interpretation book from Haindl. And sometimes Barbara Walker's or Rachel Pollock's.

/derail!!

sorry, 80s fiends.

I DID just sign all the classic "brat pack" 80s movies onto my Netflix queue! I was too old and too cool for them when they came out. I look forward to discussing them with y'all wink.gif

That's quite unusual - a queen just standing there without any trimmin's.
Cool, though.

Nothing against catholic school, since my dad and some of our friends were catholic, and there was a cool neo-medievalist monastery near us (trappists) but, eek! I went to tough, demanding, competitive conform-o public schools in an affluent suburb. It was all abot SATs and college admissions and bringing your classmate's head home on a hockey stick. McYuckity.

I like the Marseilles deck a lot. It was the first one that was distributed among the masses rather than just the aristocracy. I always got a positive reading from it, but it started getting tattered to the point that I knew one card from another from the back. Not so good when you're trying to hear a message other than just what you already know, hope and fear.

The most lovely one I have is the Etteilla deck. But it's got a rather mean spirit. Almost every card is described with a negative meaning. Figures it was Jimmy Page's favorite deck.

Lately I've been using Rider-Waite with an interpretation book from Haindl. And sometimes Barbara Walker's or Rachel Pollock's.

/derail!!

sorry, 80s fiends.

I DID just sign all the classic "brat pack" 80s movies onto my Netflix queue! I was too old and too cool for them when they came out. I look forward to discussing them with y'all wink.gif
chachaheels
Wombat, I have a Tarot deck made by the playing card manufacturers in Italy--it's called the Tarocco Piedmontese. It looks a bit like the Marseille deck, except the figures are laid out like the North American playing cards, where the court cards are concerned. Otherwise, they look like your standard Italian playing deck with a lot more cards thrown in.

I have the Marseilles deck, and the Waite deck too--and that one is the one I most often return to. Something about them is so comforting and they let you interpret the symbols clearly. Here is la Donna di Bastoni in the Piedmontese deck:

http://www.rusjoker.ru/WWPCM/decks05/d02970/d02970cQ.jpg

Apparently, the further north she goes, the less redhaired she becomes. Clothes are pretty much the same though. But you can see how the tarot decks lead to the standard playing card (only a few vestiges are left in the playing cards North Americans use--the joker and the court cards, but the transition's really clear in the Italian decks).

wombat
Neat. The Etteilla is Grand Etteilla, like the Grand Oracle Des Dames with a great drawing of high priestess as a woman standing in a spiral in front of an apple tree -- cards for the seven days of creation, including fishes and birds -- fantastic.

How cool that you found the tarocco. I wonder about those old men playing Pinochle -- they combine a couple of standard decks in order to get enough cards. It seems like they're trying to go back to that.

I also like the Moon card in the Marseilles, although it's supposed to symbolize evil, to me it reminds me of the Carlos Castaneda thing. Dogs and lobsters in adobe huts in the mountains next to streams, looks cool to me. There is a whole lost language in these cards.

red-haired people are considered lucky to the mediterraneans. i love them, too!
chachaheels
I think you're dead on about the Castaneda interpretation. I can't look at tarot and think "good" and "evil". I can't think of them reflecting a kind of moral structure based on that duality--to me they point out so clearly that those aspects, both good and evil, are part of the same whole. I think for that reason they've always been considered a little "dangerous" and subversive; I mean, after all, if you're a Pope or some guy who's out there trying to build empires...that whole "good and evil" bit comes in handy for keeping souls in line. I think about that every time I look at that hierophant card in the Waite deck--Papal Splendor, and handing out a blessing, with a clear shadow falling behind the shape of his hands (you know if you fall in that shadow, you're officially damned by the Pope).

I get a huge kick out of how similar the Temperance and Star cards are.

I'm going to look up Etteilla now. This is so off topic, I almost feel guilty. But not really.

wombat
Great. Not only that, but in Boston we have a giant CITGO sign comprised of an orange triangle on a white background, blinking on and off, and it looks exactly like the symbol that the Temperance angel in the Rider-Waite deck has around his neck!!

laugh.gif
chachaheels
Ooooh! Let's hope they know the power of the symbol they're messin' with, those corporate joes.

I must say that we can't even talk about the 80's without the incredible popularity of jodhpur pants.
Everyone wanted to look like they were off to ride a horse.
Yes, even me.

And yes, they're making a comeback (though they will not reappear on me!). Just you wait.
wombat
Cheapo Jodphur pants:

Get knee-high boots, then get a big baggy old man's suit at the thrift store, and wear the pants, tucked into the boots, and with a belt.

If they are of a decent fabric, it's nice.

I am way too old to wear that now!! You need to have a bunch of other funky, punky details in your look to pass it off.
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