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juls
IMO, the phone scene was probably the most "real moment" that we've seen this season. She's not fake, she's as real as they get. And she's quirky, I love it!
freckleface7
I'm w/ you on the phone.
I have been known (as recently as last night even, sigh) to hold on to the phone for minutes paaaast when the mr & disconnected, bc I can't physcially bear to literally seperate from the connection.

however, wreckingball brought up some very interesting psychological aspects of it that we discussed here early on.. in terms of nata's possible past and how she came to be in the States.
however ~ sinse then, and those early (imo) Leading scenes of the show, they have also shown her to have a very loving relationship w/ her husband.

which is truth and which is tv editing?
will we ever really find out?
I like nata, delusional or not.
I think she is someone I could relate to in some ways and am drawn to her sweetness.

wreckingball what you said about renee learning her toughness from Mean Girls, and nata learning it from the Eastern Bloc- PRICELESS!! that might be the best statement to come out of this whole thread for this episode!!

as far as the Mother's on the show... are all 3 of the women left all moms? that is a sad and scary thought. I don't think any of them have any idea how imposibly difficult it's going to be to be a Mom and a model, w/ renee thinking she is going to carry her husband and baby around w/ her to every location she gets to go to. Not Likely.

wreckingball
I'll backpedal on the phone thing, I have just completely forgotten what it feels like to really be in love.
From my perspective, it sort of seemed like she was trying too hard to prove it's a real marriage. But all that actually proves is that I have trust issues all around...
Wah sad.gif

I, too, laughed while reading Candycane's line about modeling not being the only way to make money.

And I definitely know we have no idea what's real(ity show)ly going on what with all the creative editing, but I'd love to know more. I really want to believe they all talk about their families a lot more than we see. Maybe the creators are uncomfortable with what a huge emphasis that would put on yet another "too weighty for the ANTM vibe" subject: that of debatably irresponsible, fairly young girls with no money (and in Renee's case, her husband was homeless at some point, or at least she said he was) having what it's safe to guess were unplanned pregnancies, whether married or not. Just guessing. Either that or the girls think "the less said, the better for my image".
Urgh.
maimy
I agree with the curiosity about editing. But I do think that if Jaslene EVER spoke about her child, it'd show up at some point, surely. They haven't edited all the other mothers' discussions of and allusions to their children - there is no reason they'd "censor" her motherhood. So I just reeeeeealllly wonder about her.

About Renee's supposed financial urgency with the competition: one wonders how - if things are SO dire this is the family's only possible hope to go on - they are surviving the duration before she triumphantly brings home the not-actually-all-that-massive, nor instantaneous payoff from her presumed win (hah). A job at Burger King would have been paying her ALL ALONG; meanwhile, she is separated from her family, living in a mansion, making not.one.thin.dime for it, and guaranteed NOTHING, NOTHING, I mean NOTHING WHATEVER.

I may have been in the financial services industry for one day too long (twelve years almost now) - but I gotta say, even without that experiance, it would NEVER occur to me, on my most idiotic day, that reality TV represents sound fiscal planning. Sheesh.

Every time I see someone on some reality show saying (a) "I need this for my family"; or (b) "I really think I am falling in love with her/him"; or © "This has been the most (important/amazing/rewarding) experience of my life", I think to myself how unfortunate it would be if any of those things were (1) true; or (2) actually what these people BELIEVE to be true. It's hopelessly superior of me - and what else is "reality" TV designed to inspire, but feelings of smug superiority over the morons? - but it is my invariable response. Nitwits.
freckleface7
maims,
that's bothered me too- if renee's family really has been homeless, then how can she call him?
how does she know Where to? bc if you're trully that destitute, can you afford a phone? even a trac type which if I'm not mistaken is somewhere in the vicinity of but less than a case of say.. FORMULA or BABYFOOD a month, but still a fair amount of change.
maybe I'm just simplistic in that regard.. but that's really been bugging me.

I don't think jaslene has spoken about her kid bc I don't believe jaslene has much of a soul.
I know that sounds harsh, but something about her eyes just sorta spooks me.. her pupils look all huge and dark and dialated and it all just comes across as Me Me ME.
makes her even less attractive than I already don't find her.

is the season finale next tuesday?

fyi bc the thread seems to have died,, the very Final season finale of Gilmore Girls is this tuesday night.
maimy
QUOTE(freckleface7 @ May 13 2007, 09:42 PM) *
maims,
that's bothered me too- if renee's family really has been homeless, then how can she call him?
how does she know Where to? bc if you're trully that destitute, can you afford a phone? even a trac type which if I'm not mistaken is somewhere in the vicinity of but less than a case of say.. FORMULA or BABYFOOD a month, but still a fair amount of change.
maybe I'm just simplistic in that regard.. but that's really been bugging me.

I don't think jaslene has spoken about her kid bc I don't believe jaslene has much of a soul.
I know that sounds harsh, but something about her eyes just sorta spooks me.. her pupils look all huge and dark and dialated and it all just comes across as Me Me ME.
makes her even less attractive than I already don't find her.

is the season finale next tuesday?

fyi bc the thread seems to have died,, the very Final season finale of Gilmore Girls is this tuesday night.


Huh, what's funny is I wasn't even thinking along the veracity of Renee's lines, just the stupidity of Reality TV-as-financial-planning-tool. But you're right, she has been Rather Dramatic about how desperate the situation is. So one does wonder. Of course, this is a world in which poverty still includes cable TV, cell phones, and microwaves. I, who make VERY nice money (got my raise today, retroactive to May 1), and have only one of those three things (a twelve or fifteen-year-old microwave handed down from my late Aunt), look at people who have them and are desperate, and wonder whether the desperation would be so dire if they, you know, forwent the $60/month cable and the freaking cell phones.

But that's me.

Finale's Wednesday.

Jaslene never struck me as actually soulless, just a more banal sort of empty. She's simply "there", no more, no less. It's interesting to me the way she discusses having passion about modeling. Somehow it just seems so difficult to buy her as passionate. And then her little "dance" about being truly in love. I wondered briefly whether she might mean her child, assuming there is one. But she kept it so oblique, so unclear, it was impossible to tell what the hell she meant.

And she was the one going on and on about how Nata has "something missing"? Ew.



Also, after Sunday's re-run, I had to revisit The Most Pointlessly Bitchy Reality TV Moment Ever. When they all came back to the model apartment, read the Tyra Mail, and Nata tried to just open some sort of communication with everyone because she was flatly refusing to be uncomfortable with them no matter how infantile they were and how her own day was going - "What do you guys think will happen?" And Renee' and Jaslene acted like FOUR YEAR OLDS (seriously, I remember you Sally T. and Lara D.) all "Well, I think we're going to GO TO PANEL and ONE OF US WILL GO HOME, duh."

Bitches.

Every time one of those moments plays, I think of Elyse during Cycle one, seething at the camera, just saying, "Bitches!"

She had passion. Hee.
chachaheels
I believe Renee did say that she and her husband are homeless in the sense that they haven't got the means to support themselves. She did mention that her husband and child were living with her mother in Hawaii while she took part in the competition. I don't have any difficulty believing that someone like Renee, or Jaslene, Dionne, and even Natasha could have very limited resources and contacts or access to opportunities which might pull them out of poverty.

And if they come from backgrounds where they never had the means to finish school or attend a good university and study well into graduate school so that really well paid work would be accessible, aiming to win a contest for some modelling work and a sizeable contract seems like a much more realistic way of making real economic change take place for themselves and for their families.

These girls aren't wealthy and well connected or highly educated and skilled--they're pretty and they're willing to take part in a contest which requires that its participants be good looking and capable of selling their appearances to market product, that's all. That, they can do! And if they're lucky and they try hard, they'll come out with a six figure contract, a recognizable face which might help them get work in an industry that pays far better than Burger King ever will. A ticket out of poverty, if you want to think on a long term basis: a chance to make enough so that their children won't grow up without opportunities, as they did.

So I don't find the "I'm doing it for my family" logic hard to believe at all.
candycane_girl
Maimy, I forgot about that part! That was so rude, I really feel for Natasha. And also, like you said, I can't stand this whole idea of people in "poverty" who still have cable tv and cell phones and that kind of stuff. My family always had a decent amount of money and yet we went without cable tv for years.


And I still think the idea of going on a reality tv show to make money is ridiculous. Surely there are other means to get yourself out of poverty, like going out and getting a real job. Obviously not having an education will make it more difficult but I have a friend who dropped out of college after one year and is now making decent money working for a call centre.
chachaheels
Yeah, but you're in an entirely different economic reality when you can get into college and drop out, as compared to when college isn't even something you can think to dream about, ever, as you're growing up. I also think it's shitty to judge people who make so little for what they spend their money on--there are probably a million good reasons why people go into debt or prioritize material things in a poor family, which may have more to do with feeling like they can at least provide some of the things that others have when they lack so much else. Wealthy people also spend their money foolishly, but we never condemn them.

These girls may be dirt poor and unrefined, but they're not stupid. Modelling pays a lot more per hour than Walmart, even if they lose in the competition! If you really want to get yourself and your children out of the trap that poverty is, you need a lot of opportunity and a lot of money coming in. Otherwise, your kid will also be working at Walmart, not because she chose to drop out of school, but because school will not be one of her options, ever, either.
maimy
Chacha, I am not judging the people, but I do question the decisions, and the reasons I do so aren't born of a bitchy need for personal superiority. They're born of the EXPERIENCE of poverty, and my own choices getting out of it. I went without certain things, and I considered all options and eliminated "easy money" choices. These women have been taught that this is easy money. I have some problems with that, and with people who accept that, because the pitfalls with it are hardly hidden ones.

(a) Reality TV is not easy money. It is a deceptive pitch for a highly dubious, and UNLIKELY "reward". The odds of winning aren't particularly better, in terms of choosing to participate, than the odds of success in a modeling career approached more traditionally. This is true of ANTM, and pretty much all the other reality shows too. They're not produced to reward special people with special talents. They are produced to garner viewership and advertising revenue. Nothing more. To kid oneself about that is to miss a pretty major factor in the dynamic, and that's a dangerous miss, I think. (Caveat - it is possible that game shows *may* offer better payoffs, especially given the much-shorter turnaround time - one doesn't have to invest three entire months away from friends and family.)

Also - (b) Whatever reward may even be available, if you win it, will NOT last very long. A one-shot modeling contract for $100k sounds amazing when all variables are not apparent, but consider the situation after the year is over. Has the winner gained a solid and lucrative career? Given past alumni, it doesn't seem entirely likely. Did she invest wisely, and will she build whatever she gains into a financial vehicle with "legs"? Extremely unlikely. $100,000 is not a lot of money, no matter how it may sound to someone desperate. And it won't come all at once. And taxes will brutalize the bottom line. And life will take its massive cut, and time will fly and ten grand will be left, looking lonely. In the best and most experienced hands, $100,000 will not carry anyone beyond the need to work for a living, to economize, to plan for the future. There is much more to be said for reliable income than for instant "riches" that will exhaust quickly and leave one right where one began.

As to modeling paying better than WalMart or Burger King - that may be true (and it may not, too). But a 9-5 (or 12-8 or whatever) is more likely to be there for someone for years to come. It will pay by far sooner, and more regularly, than ANTM's gigs - which might even evaporate entirely after the winner's year is over. A regular gig need not take someone away from her family, her child. I don't mean to say that a woman Must Stay In the Kitchen - by no means. But most of the women in ANTM's history, who are mothers, have a very hard time with being separated from their children. This will not get easier in any fulfilling or healthy way. The job is HARD, it takes everything out of some women, and is designed to burn bright (if you're LUCKY - which only the tiniest percentage will be) and snuff early. McJobs aren't glamorous, but more and more of them offer retirment vehicles. (And, much though I loathe them, WalMart is actually one of those companies who do so.) A regular hometown gig also allows one some level of security while still looking around for a BETTER regular gig. Modeling cannot guarantee the next photo shoot, and no client will want you every Tuesday and Friday. You can't predict how far the $2000 from that last gig is going to have to stretch.


When I was young, dumb and 24" around, I could very easily have made a living out of that short-lived gig as a "dancer" (stripper). It wasn't as glamorous as modeling, I can't make that comparison, but it was phenomenal money for someone unable to afford toilet paper on occasion, and it was *immediate* money - an advantage nobody n ANTM is seeing. I could have done a lot of things to make a lot of money; we all could, in one way or another. But I decided there are a lot of dollars I've never had, and that I wouldn't miss 'em if I didn't choose to make 'em.

I don't condemn the contestants on ANTM or anywhere else for wishing for better for themselves. But I do condemn fooling oneself, particularly in the name of vanity. Reality TV *consumes* people by tempting their conceits. The people we watch are not beneficiaries of a decent system, they are fodder, and we all know it. That *they* don't seem to is what depresses me. That they're buying into their own being crassly consumed for someone else's buck is what frustrates me. And as to nobody condemning the wealthy for their choices - ask Ken Lay about that shower curtain, or Paris Hilton about her public image. People HATE the wealthy, and the need for smug superiority over others definitely finds many targets in that dynamic of loathing. Envy and schadenfreude combine in the audience for reality TV in much the same way they manifest in those who hang on the stories in the tabloids, or Anna Nicole's deterioration and death.

Television is an industry, and modeling is an industry. Both build up to consume, and sometimes they destroy components too weak to withstand the difficulties.

I do not judge the women. I judge the choices. And, yes, I pity them. Deeply.

But I do not exempt them from the responsibility to make sound decisions, when they're broadcasting that they think going on TV and being isloated from their families for several months for the *hope* of a reward - not even for a guarantee! - is a sound decision. It's not even a reliable hope, and it doesn't rank as financial investment any more than my ex father-in-law's insistence on buying lotto tickets because "somebody's got to win!" He insisted it was stupid NOT to buy lotto tickets. I see something similar to that self-deceptive desperation in reality TV contestants, often.

I lived though Reaganomics and Bush Mach I. The idea that a college degree is any sort of guarantee is almost strange to me, because I graduated smack in the middle of that being nearly impossible. I was lucky to get a gig paying $10,000 a year, and even in 1990 that was a paltry little pittance.

I know what it is to hear an ad on the radio for a $500 prize for a dance contest and think "THAT is my answer!!" Part of what gets to me about the "reality TV will be my redemption" thing is that it is so familiar. If I had been younger when the reality boom came along, the worst foolishness of my youth would have been captured on video forever. I'd have been GRATEFUL to throw myself in the maw of the monster. I understand the temptation, the self-delusion *extremely* intimately. But the monster is no less a monster just because I recognize my own giddy propensity to jump between the teeth. It is all the more monstrous to me.



I feel a little dirty now, with the finale tomorrow.

Anyway. My $100,000 worth.
candycane_girl
I just have to agree with maimy. My friend may have been able to go to college for a year but that was with a loan which I'm sure she'll spend years paying off. I think what came to my mind with this whole issue was that someone like Renee could have been working and instead she's on a reality tv show and was originally facing a chance of 1 to 18 of being "America's next top model". The only upside is that a lot of the girls on the show end up getting work but like Maimy said most modelling careers are very short. Unless they save a hell of a lot, how will it provide for their future?
chachaheels
That's easy--if you make a lot of money for a short while, you not only make enough to buy yourself some present tense security, you can save and invest as well. All models have short careers, even the most successful ones. Hell, even Martha Stewart funded her entire education and a publishing business by modeling when she was young enough to do it. As she put it, why earn 1.40 an hour when you can make more than $20 an hour? (I'm referencing an article from Fortune Magazine, written a long time ago, when she talked about what she was paid back in the 70's).

A lot of people in our society do not make enough money to save anything at all. 100% of their earnings goes right back into the economy, and they simply do not make enough to save.

Without savings, you can't deal with many of the crises that come along--illness, death in the family, the need to be away from work if your child is sick, having a stable home to live in, etc. etc.

Now, Renee, for example: when she says she is an abuse survivor, I believe her. You can tell: she's a bully and a manipulator, a single mother with no prospects and probably a husband who is just as uneducated as she is. I doubt she lived too long in any one place growing up; and maybe had to leave school early. It'd be hard to think about College or University if you can't even pay the bills, or live in a home where any crisis upsets everything whenever it comes along.

I don't understand why her husband isn't working at something (but we don't know that he isn't) but her leaving to try and do something that would change their lives and prospects financially? I don't see why not. Perfectly plausable. Even if she only works for a year and makes fifty or sixty thousand dollars on a series of small projects and shoots, that's way more than she'd ever hope to make with her limited amount of skills. That could get her out of her mom's house and into her own home (maybe even give her enough for a downpayment on a house she could buy) and put some away to pay for her child's education in the future.

There's no way she could do that if she just got the kind of job she'd be able to get. None, whatsoever.

Maimy, I get what you're saying too==there are no guarantees that someone who's had nothing at all in their lives will actually be able to use money wisely. However, think for a minute why it is that things like lotteries sell so well, and "reality TV" is seen as means to an end, with a big prize. Sure, both are HUGE ruses. But both of them sell the idea of big dollars as redemption. Why do we have difficulty understanding why someone who hasn't got any money would want to take part on the chance that they might win the prize?

And then, why do we have trouble with the idea that such a large prize, if it is used wisely, could, in fact, change an economic reality for someone who has always done without? Of course it might be blown, of course the opportunity might lead nowhere, of course we may not see this person again...but can't we consider the fact that the publicity and recognition alone could create an opportunity that never would have existed before?

Look at it this way: if you've got nothing but looks, and you've never had anything at all, and you need to make money...as an unknown you might consider stripping (though, it's very clear to me that women who come from much wealthier homes, when faced with not having enough funding, seem to consider becoming a madam instead--and I think the class difference in terms of economics really underlines my point here). But if you're Adrian Curry, and your prize doesn't materialize, you can still take your fame/notoriety/exposure from your participation on the show and use it as a resource. So, instead of stripping, you can choose to negotiate a deal with Playboy. You pose nude, once, and your pay is one million dollars. This choice does not exist for the girl who could either strip or work at Burger King.

See the difference a reality show makes?

I know all these contestants do.
candycane_girl
This is completely off topic but I actually had a dream that for the 3 girls left, instead of doing the regular modelling challenges they had to do almost like an army style physical challenge. But the dream ended before a winner was chosen. tongue.gif
maimy
ChaCha, I think we've been talking about two different things. I understand hope. I understand desperation. I understand poverty. I have experienced all of the above, and not for a few weeks, but for several years. I graduated from college in one of the most depressed small cities in the midwest, during the economy of George Bush the First. The very fact of my diploma was a liability in that town, which (a) had no employment to offer in which it would have been useful, and (cool.gif represented a snooty university student, in a place where the line between "townies" and students was very clearly drawn. The temptation to hope that things like modeling or stripping or ANY "good" money could really be a good choice was enormous. That same temptation led a lot of the men I knew to work at the truck plant or the foreign automaker several dozen miles away. I myself commuted 60 miles a day to the "big town" for a very long time, for what passed then for decent money. I had no insurance. I had no savings. I had no guarantees.

My point is that hope is not planning. And planning is the only vehicle by which hope can reach fruition anyway. Adrienne may have parlayed her initial exposure into further exposure, but to GET there she had to be screwed straight out of the gate. Step one for her was to be exploited, discarded, and financially disappointed. Adrienne is a hard-as-shit worker, and she refused to be beaten. Good for her.

But what she experienced is not remotely available to everyone. Even every reality TV contestant.

So, if for every Adrienne ther are fifty or so Jaels - who end up having candid photos taken at a random party, which are then downloaded over and over and viciously picked apart by strangers on MySpace and a thousand other sites, while no apparent career is materializing for them - I think it is at the very least fair to look at reality TV and *understand* the HOPE ... while still condemning the cruelty of the exploitation of that hope. Because, for most participants, the hope is empty. And they need to believe in it anyway, even though they know the risks.

Hope is one of the greatest gifts humanity is blessed to be endowed with. It is also one of the strongest tools in the hands of manipulators. And the industries we are talking about are manipulative in the extreme.



Okay, back to our show.

Final two ...

*Back after commercial* Boo.
juls
Ok, I knew that they had a pretty though choice between the three girls left, but letting Renee go because she looks older than the other girls? And just saying that for the first time (assuming it wasn't edited out previously) when she's part of the top three?? Made me sick to my stomach... and I hate the bitch...

And Jaslene! Seriously? I mean, I knew they wanted a fierce look, but come on...

I hope that an agency somewhere books Natasha cause girl's got alot to offer!
freckleface7
stoopid jaslene who is so arrogant and sounds ignorant too.

oy vey, I really had a moment where I hoped they'd choose the better person but that's not reality tv.

sad.gif

( & did you all see the picture of nata & her husband and their baby? her husband is hot and the baby is adorable!)
chachaheels
Before we get back to our show, we are talking about different things, Maimy: I'm talking about economic class, and not just a temporary lack of money. If you know about college as a kid, and get to go there, even if you have to work through it or get loans to do it, it means you have had some stability in a middle class home. Money may be scarce, but you know where the jobs are, you know who can help you to do what, you know where to go to find things out, you (or your parents) have a bank account, a roof over your head, etc. Even if they're not the best. You have a lot of access to resources, which can get you out of your need for money because of your economic class. Yes, under these circumstances, planning and taking advantage of opportunities which arise from planning is a good strategy, you don't need to look for slim chance pie in the sky schemes.

These girls aren't from that class (well, this doesn't apply to Natasha--given the time she was growing up, if the USSR hadn't been economically destroyed she'd have gone to college easily and quite possibly found any work she wanted to do). They're from one much lower, where poverty isn't just about a lack of money. It's this class which is targetted with "offers" of credit, because they can't work enough to pay the bills (the jobs they can get just don't pay enough). And it's this class which knows that working hard doesn't get you out of poverty--unless the work you do can pay well, and those jobs are out of reach because access to what is needed to obtain those jobs does not exist, except for the rare few--people who can, say, play a sport well enough to compete for scholarships and hope for a chance at a pro career, for example.

Or, the chance to win a lottery, or a reality show.

If planning really worked for this economic class, this economic class wouldn't exist, but it does; and the number of people in that economic class is growing all the time, as a direct outcome of the idiotic and cynical spending and stealing habits of the extremely wealthy (Reagan and his lickspittles being the first batch, but by no means the most offensively cynical).

Jael will do fine, if she can find some representation. Any publicity is good publicity in the business she's in. Any decent publicist can spin bad press into fortune, all they need to do that is a person whose image is publicly recognized no matter how scandalously that publicity is obtained.

Anyway, I had hoped Natasha would win.
But, truthfully, when Renee was bounced on her ass after criticizing everyone around her in that patently insecure way of hers, I was happy enough not to care anymore. Either one of the two other women could win after that, I didn't care which!

I completely agree that the criticism about how old Renee looked was utterly manufactured bullshit.
But if you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Glad to see that putdown come out of nowhere, when she least expected it. I had hoped someone would ask her if she ever really thought that Vogue would ever put an "old" model on its cover, in the same way she badgered Whitney about her size once apon a time, but seeing her stunned and deflated reaction to her elimination was good enough.
candycane_girl
freckleface, when did they show a picture of Natasha's husband and baby?

I was hoping that they would pick her just because of all the good things they said about her, that she's a really quick study and can be very versatile. As for Renee, I'm pretty sure they had mentioned that she looks older long before this episode. I had liked Jaslene at the beginning but it seemed like as the show progressed she became more conceited which just made her really unlikable to me. But everyone knows that it seems like the girls that don't win the competition almost do better than the girl that does win.
go_kayte
Why did renee tell natasha to "win it for the mamas?" cause i thought jaslene was a mama too? Either way that was kind of a weird comment.
maimy
Go_Kayte, exactly what I was thinking. Even if Jaslene isn't a mother (I am more than willing to believe I misremembered that completely), the sheer hypocrisy of Renee suddenly "rooting for" Nata was ... inexpressibly bizarre. Misplaced. Bitchy all over again (the way she'd been buddying up with Jaslene, suddenly saying that right in front of her? HUH?). Kind of creepy. Very strange.

I will say, though, much as I dig Nata, they wrecked her in hair and makeup last night. She did lose her spark on the runway, which was unexpected. But at the decision panel, everything down to the camera angle someow conspired to make her look relatively dreadful.

Very surprising turnout.



I want to form a Winners Who Lost club, with Furonda and Nata and Shandi and some of the others who were expected to do better, or who just won us over, and who didn't end up winning. Not necessarily a group of also-ran's who "should have" won, but just the ones we loved or thought were amazing in the competition.
jojodarling
I 'm with you Candycane! At the beginning Jaslene's pictures were great but I started to get less and less impressed with her as the show went on. Now she positively irks me. I really wanted Natasha to win! She is truly unique.
candycane_girl
kayte, I noticed that comment too! I was like, wtf, just last week you were trying to make sure she got kicked off. I think that's why I can't stand Renee she just reminds me of every incredibly bitchy, psychopathic, back-stabbing girl I've ever met. I was so glad when she was kicked off.

I'm not disappointed that Natasha didn't win because I'm sure if she pursues modelling on her own, she'll be very successful and meanwhile Jaslene will be forced to do those stupid "My life as a covergirl" ads for a year.
sassafrass
What's driving me crazy is that you can't see any of the past seasons (except the 1st) on dvd (like, using Netflix). I haven't seen seasons 2-5 (I think it's 5?) and I'm really annoyed.
bettieblank
sassafrass you will have to keep an eye on VH1, they always have marathons of past seasons. I am talking a whole cycle in a day!

I could have sworn that Jaslene had a daughter so I too was confused by the comment Rene made during the finale.
missjoy
Okay, I'm bumping this up to see if any Canadian Busties (other than me) watch Canada's Next Top Model? It is in it's second season, the first was totally budget and very unimpressive - this season is hosted by Jay Manuel and is awesome. I think it actually has more girls in it that could actually be models than most of the ANTM seasons (they are all actually model-y looking).

I also enjoy it because it is all shot around where I used to live. The big makeover day was done at my former hairstylist and where I got my wedding hair done (hee hee).
candycane_girl
I've only seen two episodes but I've enjoyed it. I really like Jeanne Beker for some reason and I love Jay as a host. I don't have a favourite girl but I have to say, I was really surprised they kicked Mo off.
missjoy
I like the girl with the red hair - can't think of her name - she seems like she would be the kind of girl in this lounge chatting - and she has style, which many girls on the Top Model shows do not.

I also think Sinead (with the short brown hair) will do well - but I may just like her because she reminds me of Natalie Portman.

I was also surprised they kicked Mo off - she had a great pic last week and didn't receive the worst critisism.
candycane_girl
Yeah, I like Sinead's look, I was surprised that she's from the next town over from me! I think the redhead girl looks okay in pictures but there's something about her when she's just in person that's not doing it for me.

Tia is pretty but she just seems completely scatterbrained. She said she has ADD but I dunno. It's hard to tell if she means it or if she's just making excuses.
missjoy
All I know is, after last night, I really wish they would get rid of Cory. Tia is starting to grow on me, I agree her pics aren't good, but her personality is starting to grow on me.

It seemed a little fake when Cory was hyperventilating - and I would have told her to shut it if she was whining like that in the bathroom to me before their dinner with Nigel.

I also thought the complaining during the go-sees was funny. I used to work at a place right near the corner she was on when she complained about the smell - I agree, it does smell there - but not in the middle of winter!

I also felt bad for the redhead that she didn't do so many of her go-sees. I would have figured you had to go in order too - and after all the people liked her so much too!
chachaheels
I think the CNTM show is all around better than the ANTM show this season, and I'm actually impressed by the way the usually idiotic personalities who've been transplanted from ANTM "clean up" once they're on CNTM. Miss J was actually likeable, and not babbling about who the hell knows what from under a blossom of cheap fabric remnant bunting. I like Jay as a host, too--he seems to be kind of considerate to these girls. They all seem capable of being knowledgeable and helpful as panel judges.

But that one photographer--what's his name? Skeevy.

Cory is insufferable, but they can make her look so good in photos. That's a big thing in her favour.

Poor Rebecca--zig zagging across the city, over and over again. Everything on those maps was on the subway line or the Queen streetcar line--it should have been super easy to get from one place to another. I agree she looks really great in her photos, but in person she seems gawky and really plain.
missjoy
I would agree with how Rebecca looks in real life - except everyone liked her so much on the go-sees. I think she just has a really new look, one they never seem to choose on ANTM.

Funny how they made Nigel to be such a sex symbol on the CNTM show - they don't do that as much on ANTM. I remember the ANTM episode where they had the indian girl and he commented on how he was indian, my friends and I were, like, "Whaaaa?". Now I see it, but it kind of came out of nowhere.
chachaheels
You're right about that look "never being chosen on ANTM"--she's like the proverbial "ugly-beautiful" model. She's edgy looking on film, and that red hair is ideal--now she just needs to realize that her chin is extremely weak so she needs to wear definite lip colour. Then she'll be okay.

I don't know why she suddenly felt compelled to shit talk Cory though--none of that stuff needed to be said about her, as I think the judges got an eyeful of everything they needed to see about her just watching her react to criticism in general.
It made Rebecca look petty.
candycane_girl
Damn, I completely missed this week's episode.

missjoy, yeah I think Nigel said that his mother is Indian. I'm half Indian and no one ever expects it either, usually people think I'm Italian or Greek.
chachaheels
It's over! And, not surprisingly, Rebecca won it all.

How I will miss Jay's Tom of Findland enhanced portrait in the doorway of the girls' dorm!
Generally, I thought there was a kind of sobriety in the Canadian version that's just missing in the US version. The prizes given out to the girls for winning the challenges were also a lot more impressive in comparison. Hell, I'd love a nice thick platinum and diamond pave ring as a keepsake, or a lovely Visa card, loaded with $5000. The rewards on ANTM pale by comparison.

But the topper: Jay Manuel in a shirt and tie, all dressed up for the finale. M. ChaCha thought he looked like Bob Barker.
missjoy
Can't... belive... I... missed... finale...

And because I went with Joyboy to a stock car race - man my priorities are wrong!
chachaheels
Well, here you are, missjoy, for you and your gorgeous bunny-eared basset hound:



And she wore a very cute birdseye check and applique dress for the finale...made me envious.


Sinead was also in the running, they did quite an interesting fashion show and Rebecca modelled a very sheer black tulle, body skimming dress that required an extensively shaved pubis as well as yards and yards of double sided tape...and yet it looked elegent and not horrifying.

Sinead looks like a young Julie Andrews and dressed throughout the contest as though she were playing Miss Vicky on the old Carole Burnett show. Despite winning the $5000 shopping spree at places like Pam Chorley and Price Roman. How is that possible? It's a mystery, but it may explain the second place.
Lilith
QUOTE(candycane_girl @ Jul 6 2007, 11:42 AM) *
Damn, I completely missed this week's episode.

missjoy, yeah I think Nigel said that his mother is Indian. I'm half Indian and no one ever expects it either, usually people think I'm Italian or Greek.


I think they said his mother was from Sri Lanka. She was a model too - very pretty.

I have a love/hate thing for ANTM.
deschatsrouge
Is every one gearing up for the new cycle?
brandils
QUOTE(deschatsrouge @ Aug 29 2007, 02:18 PM) *
Is every one gearing up for the new cycle?



I am new to the thread but a die hard ANTM fan. I watch all the episodes old and new with my daughter who LOVES it. Can't wait for the new season Sept. 19th!!!!!! tongue.gif
brandils
QUOTE(deschatsrouge @ Aug 29 2007, 02:18 PM) *
Is every one gearing up for the new cycle?



I am new to the thread but a die hard ANTM fan. I watch all the episodes old and new with my daughter who LOVES it. Can't wait for the new season Sept. 19th!!!!!! tongue.gif
bettieblank
I cant wait for the new cycle! There is a marathon on vh1 on saturday of the last season.
freckleface7
5 days ladies... !!
Jezebel
I hardly ever remember to watch the new cycles when they're on, but I'm hooked on the vh1 marathons.

A couple hours ago they showed the episode where they all had to pose as murder victims. The whole thing just creeped me out, everyone was way too into 'let's make violence and death glamorous and beautiful, ladies!'
LilPinkElectricChair
Did anyone catch he new episode last night? It was fairly boring, though my favorite moment is where they informed the models that if they were cut they would be left "stranded" in Antigua. Judging on the faces of some of the girls i think they thought they were literally going to have to make their own way back home.
candycane_girl
I went to start watching it last night and then my mom called. So I was kind of watching it on mute but I really didn't catch much except that one girl who was like "Let's see who has an eating disorder!" wtf?
freckleface7
see, the girl who has that ausberger's condition (the girl named Heather I think?) and the girl who was the bitch, who made the eating disorder comment, are from really close geographically on the map. like less than an hour but still a world apart.
Heather is white and from Valpo (IN), and Ebony(?) is black and from Chicago, I'd guess South Side based on her "mama was a crack addict/I was raised by my Grandmother" story.
I am from Exactly that same area, the nw corner of IN/sw corner of IL where they meet on Lake Michigan. and if I am right.. are they going to set this up to be some sort of nerdy smart small-town white girl w/ issues vs street smart/wrong side of the tracks but obviously Pretty City Girl ?

the race card would be a twist I don't think they have done before?
inorginal as it's still yet another version of the <yawn> bitch vs everyone theme.
and besides.. I am probably wrong anyway and the Real question here is...


why is Orange J's hair white (or silver) this time?
chachaheels
I know, Freckle!! Orange J's a completely different TV persona on ANTM from what he is on the Canadian version of the show. He actually acts sane (and so did Miss J, during a special guest appearance), but the white hair and orange skin did him few favours when he indulged in what appeared to be a fetish: wearing expensive, well cut, but seriously strange fabric'd men's suits. As often as possible. As M. ChaCha pointed out, he looked a lot like Bob Barker on The Price is Right.

Respectfully, I think the race/class issue has always been played on this show. A lot of people have noticed that Tyra has a big dream to make sure that the contestants always narrow down to a white girl, a brown girl, and a black girl. No matter how you approach it on a show like this, any "examination of race" dynamic is kind of simplistic: and from the show's own history, those who come from an elevated class background never do well in the competition...it's always got to be some kind of cinderella story.

Oh well, I only caught the last few minutes of the show, when Tyra was selecting the contestants and having them all walk across a glass runway over a swimming pool, towards her. Jesus.
freckleface7
chacha,
no offense taken.
you are probably right anyway, that there is always the 'race-thing' being played, along w/ every other possibly concieved stereotype _vs_ situation manipulation.
this time there's also the "green machine" model escort auto, in replacment of the ridiculous stretch hummers from before.
how thoughtful & trendy that Tyra cares about the environment suddenly.


as to the new season's girls.
hrmph.
not sorry to see mila gone as the first, bc I thought she had kind of squinty eyes and not much personality.
none of the short haired girls register to me either.
and heather, the girl from valpo w/ ausbergers? I'm still not seeing the "great beauty" they keep fawning over.
<yawn>

ps: organge is def a Silver this year.......... if only he'd let us have some realy fun & go blue ! laugh.gif
missjoy
I'm actually a bit more impressed with this year's models than the years past. They actually seem to have unique looks some of them. I do think it was a bit mean to do the one picture where there were two of them with the girl with Aspergers. I mean, what a set up. And, could they mention it a bit more! Geeze!

I still don't think they are as model-y as the Canadian girls this year - with them you could picture them being models.
LilPinkElectricChair
I like the way how Tyra kept Nigel and twiggy in the dark about that girl having Asbergers. I swear to god, she has the most blown up sense of drama known to mankind.
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