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lunasol
OK, so after this episode I am officially Very Very Worried about the explicitly anti-feminist tone of this season so far. The feminists have been portrayed in such a cardboard cutout way. Look, here are the Angry Women of Color and Token Blonde Sorrority-Looking Women With Them. Look how they can't take a joke! Look how mean they are to Veronica! Look how they want to blame white men for all their problems!

And what was up with Keith's comment about Veronica's shoes and taking women's studies classes? That didn't even make any sense. I mean, it's not like she was wearing Tevas. wink.gif

I guess they're trying to make a comment on the whole Duke rape case, but wouldn't such a comment be better made with more subtlety? And maybe they're trying to make a comment on campus PC culture, which is so 1990's (Didn't they see PCU or Higher Learning?).

Come to think of it, the frat boys are sort of ridiculously cardboard, too. The reason VM was so good the first two seasons was that they alsways shied away from resting on easy stereotypes and they seem to be abandoning that now.

I'll still watch, though. For a while.
mirabella
Favorite line: "Chip, Dick, faceless Star Trek crew members."

However, I was sort of pissed when Keith said to Veronica, regarding her shoes " Changed your major to women's studies?" Um...why? Did I totally not get it, or was that sexist and ignorant? (Ok, just read lunasol's comment which must have been posted while I was typing mine...sorry.)
maryjo
I accidentally looked at this thread before VM aired in my time zone, and when I saw the comment about the Women's Studies shoes I expected her to be wearing Birkenstocks or something. Made absolutely no sense with the shoes she was wearing.

I'm watching Season 2 on DVD right now, and it's so much better than this season. So much more nuanced and complex. I agree completely that the portrayal of the feminists is just not getting any better; though I did really enjoy the Logan storyline in this episode.

I wonder if one reason this season isn't working so well is that the show has always been about Veronica's interaction with the social environment around her (as opposed to just with a group of friends, as so many teen shows basically are). High school is a microcosm that everyone's familiar with, that is (to use some English-major jargon) overdetermined by the million million movies and shows that are based in American high schools. I know all the tropes like the back of my hand and I didn't go to a high school that was anything like that. College is a common setting too, sure, but it's not as overly used as high school is, doesn't have as many cliches for the VM writers to mess with. And it's a less socially diverse environment, there are entry requirements, students are all there for more or less the same reason. So even though you would think that it might be easier to write a less cliched script for a college setting rather than a high school, since they don't have so much to react against, perhaps the writers are less on their guard?

Hope that made some kind of sense...
chachaheels
I got the shoes comment--they were high heeled (denoting power), but they were not meant to be attractive. Nothing all that feminine about a penny loafer--they're meant to be sexless shoes no matter what you do to them. That, accompanied with the voice over about how a pant-suit says "Nothing happening here. Move along," might have been sexist, or it might have been an attempt to illustrate VM's detailed steps towards self-protection before going into a house full of what could be conspiratorial rapists. It's standard to catalogue the warrior's armour before she goes into the lion's den, isn't it?

I'm not sure if they're playing into the college stereotypes (complete with the anti-feminism to the Nth degree) or if they're building them up to explode them all up at some point.
kittenb
Is the rape story line going to be an all season thing? I, too, have been annoyed with way the feminist group has been portrayed. I feel like I am watching the "wimminists" from PCU (thanks to lunasol for referencing that. Hey, hey! Ho ho! This penis party's got to go! But seriously, they were so obnoxious last night! I get that they want to figure out who is to blame, but convicting a group who did not do that crime will not help.

I really liked Logan's story last night. I think I need to watch more of the first two seasons to figure out why everyone is so in love with him as I just want to put him on a suicide watch. Although, I will admit that seeing him and Matt Czuchery all half naked a wet did give me a little heart flutter. Would make a great screen saver.

I would put Keith (?) Mars (Veronica's dad, if that is not the right name) on my weird crush list, but I don't think its weird. wub.gif
chachaheels
I thought the "near reunion" of Laura San Giacomo and Enrico Colantoni was a nice bookend to the Stars Hollow Logan/Jupiter Logan near connection. Cute, a little bit of a tease--but in the end, everyone goes back to their own shows.
vesicapisces
OMG, chacha, I didn't even catch those associations. I am a bad Media Whore. (In my defense, I was at the movies and only came in for about the last 20 minutes of VM. Yeah, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.)
bunnyb
*new VM obsessee alert*

I've watched Season 1 over 2 and a half days and season 2 is on it's way (come quickly, come quickly). This is my new favourite show: it has everything I love, a little bit Buffy, a little bit Nancy Drew and some very clever and witty dialogue. I love the theme song too (although I'm gathering from archives that it's been changed? skimmed as don't want to spoil seasons 2 and 3). I've seen a couple of eps of season 2 before and I agree that with one central mystery it's difficult for new viewers to tune in although it did encourage me to go and buy it on dvd.

I can't believe how much I am lusting over Logan. Mmmmm, nasty or nice he is fine but I love him when he's soppy and sweet, those eyes... I am a Weevil fan too. I did cry, however, at "Trip to the Dentist" where Veronica and Duncan are screaming at one another, it was emotional. sniff.
maryjo
Enjoy it while you can, bunny. I'm afraid that VM may be over for me.

(spoilers below)

Okay. What the hell were they doing having Veronica bring Weevil to class and show him off like her pet dog? It was bad enough that he's ended up being the school janitor... VM was always about going against race and class stereotypes, but this season they're just happoily playing into them; poor ineffectual Weevil who can't do anything but be put on display now his glory days of high school gang agency are over.

And I hate Veronica's attitude to college. She cared so much about getting there when she was in high school, but now she doesn't give a crap about anything except getting one over on her teachers? (using the internet to cheat on the class game her first day, bring Weevil in totally inappropriately as her 'audiovisual aid').

And there's so little going on – no decent overarching storyline with twists and turns and clues. The rape mystery is not keeping me engaged; come on, with that amount of information (the picture from the ATM) high school Veronica would have solved that in one episode! College is obviously not good for her little grey cells.

I think I may not even watch next week. It's getting painful.

And House is on in the same time slot...
bunnyb
that's disappointing sad.gif. I love the class consciousness of VM in season one, it was one of the things that impressed me. Do you think it's due to the network change (i.e. the same that happened with Buffy)?
designermedusa
SPOILERS for anyone that has not seen the 3rd season most recent episode.




I'm still watching VM, but I will say it has changed since the network is now the CW. The feminists are being showed in a really negative light, but so are the fratenity guys. They are just making both of them extreme stereotypes which is disappointing. I think they have made VM herself a little annoying as well, and agree the Weevil as a class project was tacky. I also thought the scenes with Wallace cheating on his one class was out of character. If they can't think of a good storyline for Wallace then I'd rather he not be on there, why drop the Jackie storyline?

I am interested in the rape storyline though, why would Claire not tell VM that the guy in the ATM photo was her boyfriend? I just hope they complete the season and the story, and don't just cancel the show.
sidecar
I actually think it's been pretty good this season (particularly the Charlie Don't Surf episode), but the feminists thing is still throwing me. I thought this week's episode was pretty good, and I'm thinking there's probably a comeuppance on the way for Veronica and her overt bitchiness. I really liked the very end, when Parker got in her face about helping the frat, and Veronica asked which she'd rather have--the person who did this to her nailed or just someone to nail for it?

Because you know...I think it would be pretty cliched and facile to place the fraternity as the source of the rapes, easily as cliched and facile as feminists have been treated thus far. I'm holding out hope that the show will turn the cliches on their ears a bit down the road. I did like how they handled the sorority, showing that they're not all bimbo airheads who pay for their friends.
wombat
I confess, I'm old. I went to college for the first time in the late 70s, when college feminists really were like that. Didn't stop me from hanging out with them, but I hung out with other people too!

When I went back to school 2000-2002, there were no such "feminists" in sight.

Are there any schools that still have doctrinaire, doc marten and crunchy granola and no make up etc feminists these days? Not that that would be bad -- but I'm wondering if the writers are my age and haven't checked out an actual campus -- except to say, oh yeah, kids have cell phones and computers now.

It's kinda like the same old plastic james dean and betty/veronica teenagers you see on tv and in movies.-- cause that's how it was when the middle-aged male writer was a kid
prophecy_grrl
I was pretty involved in feminist/left wing activist groups in college (graduated in 2002) and we did have a few of those types of feminists. They were by far the minority, but they held a lot sway in the group and they also grabbed the attention of campus media. I'm not placing a judgment on whether that's good or bad and the group did manage to do a lot under their leadership.

The problem on the show really is that they’re showing just one “side” of feminism, one that happens to be easily caricatured. Veronica Mars is way too smart of a show to not offer a more well rounded critique of feminist activists and frat boys. As sidecar mentioned below, I do think they will turn those stereotypes around eventually. I can only hope that the one-dimensional portrayal of feminists is a narrative device.

That being said, I have been a little under whelmed by season 3 so far. I think the show has lost a lot of its edginess and seems overly concerned with pandering for ratings. I’m not giving up on it yet! As long as it’s on the air, I’ll be watching . . .
wombat
I'm a little miffed by the rapist plot twists in this show. I mean, once again they are just introducing a slew of new characters willy-nilly at the last minute, mo' less. Who the hell even IS Mercer? I can't remember off the top of my head. I'd have to go look it up on the web. And I am usually pretty good at keeping the threads apart in these kind of shows.
prophecy_grrl
Mercer is the guy who runs the casino out of his dorm room (they found GHB in the cash box from last week's robbery).

I thought last night's episode was very good and on par with some of the better episodes of season 1 & 2. I thought the mystery-of-the-week was much better than earlier eps of the season . . . and how 'bout the hot Keith sex?

Still missing the class/race commentary, though and where the hell is Mac?
wombat
Oh, right, right, the casino thing.

And now they say it's the fascist teacher's pet, who's name I forget.

prophecy_grrl
Some news on the future of the series on the CW (from Mo Ryan's blog "The Watcher" at the Chicago Tribune, November 6):

There’s a bit of good news regarding “Veronica Mars.” According to a source at the show, the Tuesday-night CW drama has received an order for three additional scripts, and directors have been hired for those scripts. As is standard with most TV shows, “Mars” got an initial order for 13 episodes in the spring, when it was picked up for a third season. However it is not yet known if “Mars” will get the additional episodes it would need to fill out a 22 episode season, or the “back nine,” as its called in TV parlance. The CW is expected to make a decision regarding back nine for “Veronica Mars” this week.


Not really sure if this bodes well or not - why just 3 eps?
wombat
Maybe they can end it like Buffy and explode the school!
faith
*not looking down in case of being spoiled for the episode I missed*
Anyone know where you can buy/download epis of VM? I missed the last one but I wanna see it smile.gif

Thanks kindly.
CharliNye
I thought tonight's show was pretty damn great! They seemed to be on track again with the pace and intrigue.

I like the little tiff with her and her dad and that they don't make things perfect with her and Logan, they're better when they're not all happy together.

And the ending, wow. Have to admit I was a little freaked for her. Next week's episode looks good too. I think they just had to go slower at the beginning to bring the new viewers in. Now they're going to crank it up like it used to be.

Just one question: Why the hell put Mac in the opening credits then never play her?? Her and wallace and Eli seem MIA a lot. How annoying.

I do like seeing Ken Marino on though. I adore him.
vesicapisces
I agree - great episode, even tho' as soon as they outlined the Sully/girlfriend story I said, "and this is going to be about how Veronica thinks this woman is deluded and her boyfriend's off doing something sketchy, and it will prove out that the girlfriend's faith in her boyfriend is right on target and something actually *did* happen to him, which will point up so nicely with how Veronica doesn't have that faith in Logan and automatically assumes the worst about him every time."

On the other hand, why did V. not immediately call 911 when she started feeling woozy, instead of traipsing off to the parking lot (what, she was going to DRIVE like that?) She's smarter than that, I thought.

Could Keith not have told Harmony to come see him when her divorce goes thru? Why does it have to be "right now or never"?
chachaheels
If Veronica had called 911, we'd never have witnessed Logan' dramatic (albeit coincidental and completely by accident) rescue. Perhaps she meant to get to the safety of her car before calling 911, as it's clear she knew what was happening to her and she'd be at least sheltered in her car if she passed out. Better than being so vulnerable in public, or out in the open.

Yup, this episode was very good.
wombat
I also thought it would be a lot more sensible, as well as in character, for Veronica to just return the calls to her dad and logan and tell them she was in the cafeteria and in trouble -- also, there were a lot of people around that she could have told and asked to sit with... I can only justify it be saying she wasn't thinking clearly.
kittenb
I think that she didn't call anyone b/c she didn't really comprehende what was going on. The voice over comments were very weird and distanced. I have never been drugged w/o my knowledge but I have been stoned like that and I know that I could not really "hear" the sensible comments that my brain was making.
designermedusa
It was really good last night. I was so glad Veronica didn't get raped again. I too wondered why she didn't call somebody instead of going to her car, but if she was out of it I guess she wasn't thinking.
wombat
My impression was she DID get raped again -- though she was clothed, they didn't want to show it on TV -- just because the guy had started shaving her hair.
pollystyrene
I think the rapist was shaving the girls heads before he raped them, not after, and he only had time to shave a small section of Veronica's head before he heard Logan coming down. So she wasn't raped again. If she was, they would have been a lot more obvious about it. There would have been no doubt.

vesicapisces
I think the timing was too tight for him to have raped her & started shaving her head/gotten away before Logan got to her - she saw the guy before she passed out, hit the alarm which alerted Logan, the rapist turned off her alarm we can assume prior to the assault - Logan was only maybe 50 yards away when the alarm was turned off. We can hope.
prophecy_grrl
I guess I assumed that the perp never intended to rape Veronica, just to scare and threaten her. I interpreted it as a "back off or you're next" type of warning. I could be wrong though.

Great episode; can't wait for next week!
wombat
could be!
missladyj
I found it hard to believe that Veronica would a: leave her drink unattended then b: not call someone the minute she felt all fucked up and then c: walk alone to her car. seemed very out of charcter but I nearly cheered when Logan found her.
wombat
I *KNOW*!!

Thanks, miss lady j!! I LOOVVVE water aerobics, I'll have you know! And I think you, and Amy, and Amarjit KICK ASS!!

Didn't that seem out of character? Okay, someone who knew her -- the dean, the teacher's pet of the dean, or, my favorite suspect, the R.A., knew she would be in the cafeteria ... and knew where her SUV was parked ... and a spontaneous crime of OPPORTUNITY -- saw her drink there!

So, a little unplanned. and she said to herself -- it's happening again! just after she got the heart warming messsages from her dad and Logan, so , wouldn't SHE?!?! have just hit "RETURN" on her cell phone and said, help me, sombody dosed me with Rohypnol, I'm at the college cafeteria?!" I think she would have!
sidecar
I thought last week's episode was great, too -- and as far as the going to her car, I actually thought that was in character for Veronica. Veronica almost never asks for help. Even when she figured out it was Aaron Echolls, she called her dad but insisted on driving elsewhere rather than waiting for him to join her at the party to stop him. I'm not sure she realized what was going on, as kittenb noted, but given that she thinks she can do/solve everything herself, it didnt surprise me that she decided to go to her car and drive herself home, rather than asking for someone to come to her.

obviously, Logan walking by was contrived, but it wouldn't be good television if there wasn't a little contrivance. smile.gif

Can I just say, I hope she and Logan don't break up. I think it's much more interesting to watch them work through their problems (veronica's trust issues and judgemental nature, Logan's attraction to the dark side) together than apart and bitching at each other. I'm probably in the minority in the fandom than that, but that's my own opinion.
bunnyb
sidecar, you are not alone. I cry when things are nasty between veronica and logan although sometimes it's funny, the rawness at times makes me upset (the alternaprom scene and the morning after).

so I've finished season 2, suffering withdrawal symptoms and need to catch up with season 3 asap.
CharliNye
Ok tonight's episode was a tad weak, but as my husband put it "of course it was, but tiny things happened which means there will be one hell of an episode coming up in the next few weeks".

Cue previews to next week. WOW. wow wow wow. I'm intrigued.

Yeah, shows can't always be perfect. And I can't get into the debate with the rest of you regarding the feminist angle, because I'm sure there are women out there who are as vindictive and cunning as those being portrayed. I think it does make for an interesting and now, extremely complex situation. Because if they were faking these rapes to prove a point, what the hell is happening to Veronica then?

Oh and Logan at the end? Oh my god, I whimpered. I want to hold him. Hug him, and if he was real and I wasn't married-do very naughty things to him to comfort him. blink.gif
wombat
I really don't think the feminists did a bunch of fake rapes or the easter egg incident!!

The reason there were no DNA samples is because of rubber gloves and condoms.
vesicapisces
O!M!G! Patty Hearst as Selma Hearst Rose, kidnapping victim! Too funny/strange.

I was disturbed by the jokey-ness with which Chip's sodomization w/ egg was treated, although I appreciated Veronica's making it clear in her confrontation with Claire & co. that Chip had been raped.

I thought Logan looked uncharacteristically lost-puppy when V. didn't pick up his call. I think I like him better when he's calculating. But I did love his run-down of their relationship - "every day you're asking me to change - and even now, when you're thinking maybe I have a point, you're thinking you're not wrong." Damn, sweetie.

I would hate if it came out that all of the rapes were faked.
chachaheels
I don't think so either--and the fact remains that some rapes were not fake. I don't think someone was just trying to "scare" Veronica, for example.

And I think anyone would know, by now, how to plan an attack so that you left no evidence.

I felt very bad for Logan at the end of the show.
sidecar
I think that a number of the rapes are real, and the strident feminists took advantage of this to copycat them.

Patty Hearst was really funny.

Logan broke my heart at the end. I don't know why she's being distant. I really, really hope they don't break up, just because Logan doesn't seem to have the snark in his heart this year. He's been pretty puppy dog, and I don't think a breakup would change that.


I think that a number of the rapes are real, and the strident feminists took advantage of this to copycat them.

Patty Hearst was really funny.

Logan broke my heart at the end. I don't know why she's being distant. I really, really hope they don't break up, just because Logan doesn't seem to have the snark in his heart this year. He's been pretty puppy dog, and I don't think a breakup would change that.
bunnyb
oh, was my Logan hurt? I adore his lost puppy angle but love his sarcasm too; such an all-round character IMO. charliNye, that last comment about Logan sounds so good!

I need to stop lurking in this thread until I've caught up with season 3!


missladyj
thanks wombat!
wombat
Okay, ten to one it was the RA.

Any guesses who gets killed?
vesicapisces
Here's a theory/question:

Y'know how in some TV shows there will be a character that doesn't look quite right and it turns out they're wearing a wig/prosthetic makeup and they are the bad guy?

I think TA Tim, the bitter former golden boy, is wearing a wig and makeup. Therefore I suspect him (and are we sure Tim's a him?) of bad deeds.
missladyj
I definately agree, that ta is wearing a wig!!
mirabella
Wow. Tonight's episode was so good....and I am completely in love with Logan. Where the hell has Mac been though? They didn't even offer an explanation.
CharliNye
Yeah they really pulled it together for tonight. The drama, suspense-when Veronica was getting attacked and then in the RA's room I had freakin goosebumps.

I loved the ending too. Though at least we know with one mystery solved one more opened up at the end.

Poor Weevil, wrong place as always.

Oh and RIP Dean O'Dell. I was digging Begley's performance.

Anyone have any ideas? Too many suspects on this one if you ask me. Which is good. I hope they don't make it too easy for us.
sidecar
I think Mac was off filming Big Love. I heart her T-shirt. That was my favorite scene, that and Keith Mars busting in the door with the gun and Logan walking into the jail cell with revenge in his eyes. Oh, Mercer and Moe.

RIP Dean O'Dell. He's my favorite celebrity cast member thus far, and I'm so sad he's not gonna be on the show anymore. Begley was so awesome.

You may recognize Tim the TA from such previous roles as Lucky the Janitor. They really should've got a better wig. That wig says "trouble."

Totally great episode. I can't believe there's not another one until January 23!
chachaheels
Oh, I hate that Ed Begley's not going to be around anymore. My theory is that Veronica's prof and Begley's wife actually disarmed him, drove him back to the office, and then the prof used Veronica's A paper description of the perfect crime to carry out the murder. Okay, that's lame, but I have to at least make an attempt.

I laughed out loud when Logan made his way towards the police car parked outside of the donut shop weilding a bat. I can't imagine what his fury will unleash on those rapists, but I'm looking forward to it. Gotta say, though, that Logan's anger always leaves him defenseless, poor guy. He's become a very sympathetic character.
kittenb
I agree. Great episode. I was totally in love with Logan and Keith at the end.

My crqazy theory is that the Dean did something bad to the teacher and then Tim the TA killed the Dean b/c Tim was in love with the teacher.
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