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bunnyb
This Just In ...

BUSTies needed a thread to discuss current events. Girlygirlgag suggested a thread where we can break and discuss news and a few of us agreed as the I am gonna miss 'em and Celebrity Gossip threads elevate the passing/execution/miracle of Saddam Hussein's literal demise (by miracle I mean that it's miraculous that the sham of a trial got that far).

It's a thread we've needed for a bit as people are usually unsure of the "right" thread in which to post world or local news (sometimes it's eaten up in Kvetch or Okay by that thing called life.)
free_spirit
(Unlurks)

Hi Bunny!

(((Bunny)))

Ok, I'm out of here, I have nothing constructive to add.
bunnyb
hehe, *waves back* (((freespirit)))

yeah the world is a newsless place...

although 2006 was a good year for losing some bad, bad men: Milosevic, Pinochet, Hussein.
ginger_kitty
Crap, I have nothing to say right now, but I'm so glad you started this thread! I've often thought we needed a thread like this.

wombat
By Jon Hilkevitch

In the sky! A bird? A plane? A ... UFO?
Video: UFO over O'Hare Airport?

Published January 1, 2007


It sounds like a tired joke--but a group of airline employees insist they are in earnest, and they are upset that neither their bosses nor the government will take them seriously.

A flying saucerlike object hovered low over O'Hare International Airport for several minutes before bolting through thick clouds with such intense energy that it left an eerie hole in overcast skies, said some United Airlines employees who observed the phenomenon.

Was it an alien spaceship? A weather balloon lost in the airspace over the world's second-busiest airport? A top-secret military craft? Or simply a reflection from lights that played a trick on the eyes?

Officials at United professed no knowledge of the Nov. 7 event--which was reported to the airline by as many as a dozen of its own workers--when the Tribune started asking questions recently. But the Federal Aviation Administration said its air traffic control tower at O'Hare did receive a call from a United supervisor asking if controllers had spotted a mysterious elliptical-shaped craft sitting motionless over Concourse C of the United terminal.

No controllers saw the object, and a preliminary check of radar found nothing out of the ordinary, FAA spokeswoman Elizabeth Isham Cory said.

The FAA is not conducting a further investigation, Cory said. The theory is the sighting was caused by a "weather phenomenon," she said.

The UFO report has sparked some chuckles among controllers in O'Hare tower.

"To fly 7 million light years to O'Hare and then have to turn around and go home because your gate was occupied is simply unacceptable," said O'Hare controller and union official Craig Burzych.

Some of the witnesses, interviewed by the Tribune, said they are upset that neither the government nor the airline is probing the incident.

Whatever the object was, it could have interfered with O'Hare's radar and other equipment, and even created a collision risk, they said.

The Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (the term that extraterrestrial-watchers nowadays prefer over Unidentified Flying Object) was first seen by a United ramp worker who was directing back a United plane at Gate C17, according to an account the worker provided to the National UFO Reporting Center.

The sighting occurred during daylight, about 4:30 p.m., just before sunset.

All the witnesses said the object was dark gray and well defined in the overcast skies. They said the craft, estimated by different accounts to be 6 feet to 24 feet in diameter, did not display any lights.

Some said it looked like a rotating Frisbee, while others said it did not appear to be spinning. All agreed the object made no noise and it was at a fixed position in the sky, just below the 1,900-foot cloud deck, until shooting off into the clouds.

Witnesses shaken by sighting

"I tend to be scientific by nature, and I don't understand why aliens would hover over a busy airport," said a United mechanic who was in the cockpit of a Boeing 777 that he was taxiing to a maintenance hangar when he observed the metallic-looking object above Gate C17.

"But I know that what I saw and what a lot of other people saw stood out very clearly, and it definitely was not an [Earth] aircraft," the mechanic said.

One United employee appeared emotionally shaken by the sighting and "experienced some religious issues" over it, one co-worker said.

A United manager said he ran outside his office in Concourse B after hearing the report about the sighting on an internal airline radio frequency.

"I stood outside in the gate area not knowing what to think, just trying to figure out what it was," he said. "I knew no one would make a false call like that. But if somebody was bouncing a weather balloon or something else over O'Hare, we had to stop it because it was in very close proximity to our flight operations."

Some joke, others research

The databases of various UFO-watching groups are full of accounts filed by pilots about sightings of unknown aircraft and anomalies that affected navigational equipment onboard planes.

Whether any of the UFO incidents are real or merely the result of individual perceptions, some experts say the events pose a potential safety risk to pilots and their passengers.

"There have been documented cases where safety appears to have been implicated, and more and more we are coming to the point of view that we are dealing with an intelligent phenomenon," said Richard Haines, science director at the National Aviation Reporting Center on Anomalous Phenomena, a private agency.

"We must be proactive before an aircraft goes down," said Haines, a former chief of the Space Human Factors Office at NASA's Ames Research Center.

Haines is investigating the O'Hare incident. He said he has determined that no weather balloons were launched in the vicinity of O'Hare on Nov. 7.

"It's absurd that the military would be conducting aerial test flights" near the airport, Haines said.

All the witnesses to the O'Hare event, who included at least several pilots, said they are certain based on the disc's appearance and flight characteristics that it was not an airplane, helicopter, weather balloon or any other craft known to man.

United denies UFO report

They're not sure what was hanging out for several minutes in the restricted airspace, but they are upset that no one in power has taken the matter seriously.

A United spokeswoman said there is no record of the UFO report. She said United officials do not recall discussion of any such incident.

"There's nothing in the duty manager log, which is used to report unusual incidents," said United spokeswoman Megan McCarthy. "I checked around. There's no record of anything."

The pilots of the United plane being directed back from Gate C17 also were notified by United personnel of the sighting, and one of the pilots reportedly opened a windscreen in the cockpit to get a better view of the object estimated to be hovering 1,500 feet above the ground.

The object was seen to suddenly accelerate straight up through the solid overcast skies, which the FAA reported had 1,900-foot cloud ceilings at the time.

"It was like somebody punched a hole in the sky," said one United employee.

Witnesses said they had a hard time visually tracking the object as it streaked through the dense clouds.

It left behind an open hole of clear air in the cloud layer, the witnesses said, adding that the hole disappeared within a few minutes.

The United employees interviewed by the Tribune spoke on condition of anonymity.

Some said they were interviewed by United officials and instructed to write reports and draw pictures of what they observed, and that they were advised by United officials to refrain from speaking about what they saw.

Federal agency backtracks

Like United, the FAA originally told the Tribune that it had no information on the alleged UFO sighting. But the federal agency quickly reversed its position after the newspaper filed a Freedom of Information Act request.

An internal FAA review of air-traffic communications tapes, a step toward complying with the Tribune request, turned up the call by the United supervisor to an FAA manager in the airport tower, Cory said.

Cory said the weather might have factored into what the witnesses thought they saw.

"Our theory on this is that it was a weather phenomenon," she said. "That night was a perfect atmospheric condition in terms of low [cloud] ceiling and a lot of airport lights. When the lights shine up into the clouds, sometimes you can see funny things. That's our take on it."

----------

Contact Getting Around at jhilkevitch@tribune.com or c/o the Chicago Tribune, 435 N. Michigan Ave., Chicago, IL 60611. Read recent columns at chicagotribune.com/gettingaround
girltrouble
npr:Louisiana City's Mayor-Elect Found Dead


Day to Day, January 3, 2007 ยท Gerald Washington, who was to be the first black mayor of Westlake, La., was found dead of a gunshot wound on Saturday. The local coroner has ruled the mayor-elect's death a suicide, but Washington's family questions that finding. Eric Cormier, a reporter with the Lake Charles American Press, talks with Madeleine Brand.



this i find utterly shocking-- particularlly the lack of coverage nationally. even npr has it squirreled away on their westcoast day show, day to day, but is not covering it other wise......i really have a hard time thinking race isn't involved in that. if this was a white mayor anywhere, there would be many more questions.....i just don't buy the suicide story here. ---huh?
who would work tirelessly for a year to get into office, only to kill yourself a few days before you take the oath? and who kills themselves by shooting themselves with your left hand when your right handed, and if you were to shoot yourself in the chest, would you hold it normally, bending your wrist? or hold it backwards, using both hands, thumb on the trigger, the other hand steading it? and more than that...who's gun was it? there is just way too much wrong here.


thanks for the thread, bunny... my head was gonna 'splode otherwise....
pollystyrene
Heh, Le Boy just blogged about the UFO sighting at O'Hare.
wombat
Y'know what's even funnier, polly?

Me and my boyfriend had just netflixed, watched, and returned Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

He had never seen it. And I was thinking, isn't it funny that noone has talked about UFOs for awhile?

girltrouble -- I did see coverage in The Boston Globe, a fairly intelligent and liberal newspaper, and, unlike most places in the world these days, young hipster types I know actually read it.

There was also a lot of coverage of the African Meeting House anniversary.

But, yeah, a mayor being shot -- you'd think it would get some TV. Louisiana.
mouse
unbelievable. apparently saddam's TELEVISED (seriously, who ARE we, as a WORLD, that we feel the need to SEE these kinds of things??) hanging has sparked copycat suicides.....including one by a nine year old boy.

we are already in hell.
bunnyb
ohmy.gif I have no words.
girlygirlgag
""It was an accident which happened due to carelessness of parents," said district police chief Sultan Ahmad. ""

Um parental neglect? Try Media neglect.
mouse
although seriously, what parent thinks it's okay for a 9 year old to watch a hanging???
chachaheels
I don't think you'd find many parents who'd think that was okay--but many parents don't supervise their children's TV viewing 100% of the time, just because it's impossible. That hanging was shown over and over again, for several days. I'm still hearing about it and seeing "bits" of footage everytime it's mentioned on TV, and it's days after the event.

It's also 2007 now, and the phenomenon of people tragically copying the imagery which is repeatedly shown on television is neither new or suprising. A police officer who throws the blame on "parental neglect" when the images the child imitated are everywhere is simply expressing an opinion that isn't based on reality. But the opinion does suggest that parents are supposed to pick up the pieces and the slack whenever seriously fucked up societies think the kind of public brutality you'd see in a hanging is acceptable.

freckleface2727
Bra Slows Bullet Fired Into Air in Florida

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (Jan. 5) - A woman watching New Year's Eve fireworks from a picnic table found out that her bra can do more than lift and support: It also slowed a falling bullet.

The .45-caliber bullet struck Debbie Bingham, 46, after someone fired a gun into the air about 20 minutes before midnight. She still needed stitches, but the wound might have been much worse except for the bra strap, police spokesman George Kajtsa said.

Bingham, who was in town from Atlanta, said she is thankful for the undergarment, which she said was "very cheap."

"I'd love to have a couple more of those bras," she said.

Bingham said she was listening to music and enjoying the fireworks with her daughter and son when she felt a sharp pain in her shoulder.

Then Solanda Bingham, 30, noticed blood seeping through her mother's white shirt, and they found the bullet lodged halfway into the gold-colored bra. The other half was barely breaking the skin, Bingham told WTSP-TV.

Kajtsa described the wound as a "big scratch with bruising."

St. Petersburg police were searching for the shooter to determine if the shooting was intentional, Kajtsa said.


01/05/07 17:01 EST

all I can say is, I want one of those bra's! as a matter of fact, I think every Bustie should get one.. imagine the publicity for the company were they to advertise in the mag? ok I'm being silly but WOW.

pollystyrene
Interesting article about all the good stuff The Gates Foundation is doing, but the bad news about how their investments canceling it all out.
wombat
That is High-larious, freckle!

Hoo! Hah!! Here comes wonder woman! Blockin' bullets with her bra!
ginger_kitty
I never considered my bra, saving my life!!

On a serious note I agree, about the parents being somewhat careless about that kid. But the hanging never should have been have televised.
girltrouble
i don't know, i think it should have been. i think there has been precious little blood shown being shed from this stupid war, and part of the problem is not seeing the repercussions of war, and a stupid president's stupid mistakes.

i know i don't have any kids, so it's easy for me to say the parents weren't doing their job, but not showing what is going on in iraq is irresponsible imho.
nickclick
in my local paper today: First accuser testifies in jail officer's rape trial
ginger_kitty
nickclick, that made me even more affraid to go to jail!!

girltrouble, I agree, they definately aren't showing enough footage about the war. I think more people would realize we need to get out of there if they saw more of what is going on. I read an article that said only like 37% of the troops in Iraq think that it is a good idea that they are there. The rest just aren't backing Bush, I think the American public needs to hear more of this from the actual soldiers over there. And more images of the wounded, to make things seem more real. But I have always been opposed to publicizing executions, though. It seems barbaric.

I guess as a non parent, myself, it is really easy to jump to the conclusion, that the parents must have been partially at fault. I have always had troubles believing anyone of sound mind would watch something like a hanging on TV, then try to re-enact it.
freckleface2727
sorry, I decided to delete the entire post I had previously posted tonight..
it was entirely too off topic and I was posting w/ my heart rather than consideration for other's here.

nevermind if you didn't see the post in the first place though! (bc it wouldn't let me just delete the whole thing in Edit Mode.)
raisingirl
Hillary's in for 2008 and she's in to win!

FINALLY IT'S OFFICIAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here.
bunnyb
what would you prefer, the first Black president or the first woman president? either, as long as one of them gets in?
freckleface2727
bunny that is really tough!

I don't know.. bc I cannot possibly make a choice like that w/out putting the personalities of the known possibilites into play here.. Barack Obama (who tho I do differ w/ him on some big issues still feel to be such a really truly good human being), but then am so torn w/ really w/ all of my heart wanting a woman in office too, but not her. I cannot vote for her (sorry raisinggirl). a - woman yes, but not that woman.
so I don't know.

how is That for an answer? if I thought Obama would get the nomination, I'd totally be supportive of him (excepting if my real candidate gets the other nom).

I hate that in this day & age, gender and race should still play such a part at all.
when I was young and becoming aware, I think I was raised to believe that when I was "grown" it would all be different.
I don't want it to be the same for my daughter. (who is such a huge influence on my views, just be being born.)

I do agree that our country could use a shift in thinking.
kickitkickitkickit
QUOTE(raisingirl @ Jan 20 2007, 10:13 AM) *

Hillary's in for 2008 and she's in to win!

FINALLY IT'S OFFICIAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here.



*Does sexy dance*
Finally.

QUOTE(bunnyb @ Jan 20 2007, 10:17 AM) *

what would you prefer, the first Black president or the first woman president? either, as long as one of them gets in?


Female. I'd really prefer to not see the first minorities take office.
auralpoison
QUOTE(kickitkickitkickit @ Jan 20 2007, 10:04 AM) *

Female. I'd really prefer to not see the first minorities take office.


Would you possibly care to elaborate on this? Cos you're a bit late for that.
go_kayte
Wow. I'm blocking the troll now.
freckleface2727
QUOTE(auralpoison @ Jan 20 2007, 02:12 PM) *

Would you possibly care to elaborate on this? Cos you're a bit late for that.

I'm glad it's not just me that didn't understand that, tho I read it 3x's to be sure...

please explain what you meant kickit?
pollystyrene
Yeah, I'm looking forward to a clarification of that statement, also.

If it came down to Hillary vs. Barack, I'd go with Barack. I'm in Illinois, so I'm loyal to him because of that, and because I think Hillary's too polarizing. I admit that I don't know a whole lot about what she's done since becoming a senator, but you also have to look at the big picture and consider who would have the best chance at beating the Republican candidate (have there been any announced?) With Hillary, there's too much they can use against her. I just have my doubts when it comes down to her actually winning. Yes, Barack doesn't have the name recognition, so people outside IL and who don't pay too much attention to politics aren't going to know who he is, but he can use that to his advantage.
ginger_kitty
YAY!!!!! I was just about to post that same link. raisin!

*crosses fingers while jumping up and down*

Check out her homepage and send her some love:

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/

bunny, it's a tough question you posed. But in all honesty I would prefer to see a women win before a black man, though they are both long overdue. At times in my life I have felt we would never see a woman president in my life time. I just feel like women have been forced to take a back step for men for too long in the U.S.

I would love to see Hillary as president with Obama as her vice!
freckleface2727
polly-

it's looking like john mccain is a strong possibility for the Rep nomination.
at least I hope so. I'm NOT a Republican (but would openly say so if I were) I am in Independent, right smack down the middle. I just luv john mccain. I cannot explain it.. it's like an old man crush gone wild or something biggrin.gif .. I have loved him for years now and if he gets the nom, I'll be out there taking it to the streets like a valentine on speed. do I agree w/ everything he says? no. from my angle, I vote for the person who best represents my beliefs and values. if mccain does't get it tho, Obama stands a really good chance of my vote bc again, I think he is just an Amazing person.

isn't he from chicago? tell me he is a Cubbie fan and I might fall in luv w/ him too! tongue.gif

seriously though, if Obama gets the nom and mccain doesn't, I would really think about campaigning for him too, altho, do I think he could win? eyyyy. he is so jr in the whole scene I have my doubts.
still, run to get known and then w/ more experience, run in the next one.
auralpoison
I'd prefer to have a woman just because there's way too much penis in politics, but I'm not feeling Hil. I think Polly hit it on the head: she's too polarizing. There are HUGE swathes of the American voting public that cannot stand her. I keep seeing snippets of that Alexandra Pelosi doc about the Evangelical movement. There's a guy talking about how huge of a voting block they are & that they spelled trouble for the past two Dem candidates, likely they'll screw Hil, too.
freckleface2727
obama as vice is a very interesting idea.. but I'd totally want him to be able to do REAL stuff.
he w/ her might be a very good choice though, and it had already crossed my mind that she might consider him for a running mate. bold yes- but again. potentially very smart all around demographically speaking.
mornington
oh, hilary with obama as vice... sounds like a good thing. there was a bit on the bbc comparing the potential candidates from both sides, and it said that obama hasn't been in politics very long. I'm odd, but I think that's a good thing.

I like the sound of obama, and i hope he runs whatever happens, just to show that he can.

and now... wtf? I find that... odd, if not outright offensive.
go_kayte
QUOTE(mornington @ Jan 20 2007, 01:41 PM) *

and it said that obama hasn't been in politics very long. I'm odd, but I think that's a good thing.



It does mean there's less voting record for critics to attack. That's how Kerry got labeled a "flip-flopper" or whatever nonsense by the repubs.
tesao
i've got to agree with polly on this one: hillary is too polarizing. i like her a lot. i don't know anyone who feels indifferent about her though - it is either love or hate. the usa as a nation needs someone who can win votes from both parties. or at least not polarize the democrats.

obama is fabulous. i'm not sure if he could win an election, though.

i have met john edwards personally, briefly, once. he was a lawyer in the city i lived in in the states, and first came to my attention when he represented a child who had her intestines pulled out by an uncovered drain in a baby pool. the apartment complex said that it was the parent's fault and refused to accept any responsibility for the incident. he and his wife are amazing people. very personable, very real. i like him.

does anyone know what mccain's stand on abortion is?

and, has anyone else had the thought that there might be a candidate who is BOTH black and female? although i wouldn't ever vote for her, Condi is a very real possibility.

auralpoison
I got one word for ya, Tes: Oprah. Everybody loves Oprah & she'd win in a landslide.
mornington
ooh, condi... in some ways, I'd cheer (come on, a black woman), though I still don't like her politics - bit like Maggie Thatcher, really (and Dave Cameron, except it's his politics I like, but can't support because he's a tory and that's just wrong).

I honestly don't know much about hilary... something makes me like her though. but she seems quite... cold.

edit: fuck yeah. Oprah.
pepper
oh, i have ALWAYS thought that about the O. she isn't into it though, boo hoo. she's the best of both worlds and she's AWESOME!! i wish she would just do it. take one for the team Oprah!! please?
bacon would be outlawed though. only turkey bacon for the entire US! ha ha.

as for that other thing, well. i know it's been a while since we crowed about it but i LOVES me some ignore function.
tesao
WORD, ap!! oprah would win. too bad she won't run. i can understand why, though. you sort of have to be a bit fucked up to WANT that job.

ignore rocks my world.
pollystyrene
I lost A LOT of respect for Oprah when she had Bill O'Reilly on a few weeks back and fawned over him. I didn't see it, but I read a critical article about it and basically, he didn't talk so much about his political views, more about his moral stance ("This is why our country's going to hell!")
ginger_kitty
Prepares to hit by rocks but....I hate Oprah!!!! And she never speaks about her political views.

I would really love to see how Condi handles herself without Bush, though. She seems very strong and outspoken. Maybe she'll step out of G.W.'s shadow and surprise us all?

I find Mccain, very likable but I am not sure where he stands on a lot of issues. Though I tend to vote democratic, there are a few republicans who have won my respect and my vote over the years.
auralpoison
I'm not wild about Oprah either, but she'd win, she'd have celebrity guests, & the people of America would all get gift bags full of fabulous prizes! As long as she doesn't let Tom Cruise jump around the Oval Office...
turbojenn
I prefer to keep Oprah right where she is...I think she has more power over the heartland than any politician, and by staying out of politics, she can speak her truth to power as often as she likes, with millions of viewers lapping it up...its good education for many parts of the country where liberal voices are not as well heard.

I'd vote for Hillary, but I'd vote for Barack or John Edwards too....at the moment, Edwards' platform is the most exciting, and perhaps necessary for this time...but in the end, I feel like we have a wealth of talented candidates from the Dems, and its such a rare thing to feel excitement/optimism about *one* candidate, let alone 3 or more! I also have to pitch in a vote for Russ Feingold too....he's a tried and true liberal.

McCain has fallen out of favor with me...whether his pandering to Bush and standing by him is his true colors or not, he should be playing to the middle, not the neo edge. He's lost his "straight talk" and his Maverickness in his quest for power - which might be necessary, but that's what people loved about him. But more than that, his votes approving torture for "enemy combatants" and apparent disregard for the Geneva Convention - that's what I find most upsetting - the man KNOWS better, better than anyone. Oh, and don't forget, he's one of the Keating 5, from the savings and loan scandals back in the day...so the man is not holding the bar high on ethical standards here, I'd just say he's done a brilliant job of burying the past. He's charming as anything, I'll give you that, but I'm not buying. And with such a stunning field of Dem candidates, there's no tempting me away... smile.gif
mornington
laugh.gif oh, the mental image...
freckleface2727
Condi has already said on many occassions she will-not-run.
that is a true loss yes, bc in her early days I totally disliked her, saw her a token figurehead to appease our conscious's but I could not have been more wrong. I admire her greatly on a lot of levels and maybe some BC she is like Maggie Thatcher, whom I also love. (did ya know in Britian they refer to strong women as having a big set of Thatcher's ? )


I do not honestly know mccain's stance on abortion, but for a Rep, he's mighty liberal sometimes, so if he were For it would not suprise me. as to him pandering to Bush.. I don't see it, but then perception is what it's all about.
and as to the enemy combantant stuff, well, I have to say from the view of an Army wife, there are worse things in the world when it's an Us or Them situation. I don't go blindly by what what we are "told" but war is war.
and oy vey I do not mean to be disagreeable or argue!

tesao, I always forget you are from the same state I live in now. I like john edwards too. he seems very real. totally crazi about his family & what a strong and amazing wife he has.. she'd make a wonderful first lady. did you get to meet her as well?

as to oprah, like her o k, but not for office. altho the gift bag idea certaintainly has merit tongue.gif
pepper
it's prolly a good thing that she doesn't talk about her politics. can you imagine the shit show her prorgam would deteriorate to if she did? oh the horrors!

i like her just fine. she's strong and outspoken and interesting and intelligent and compassionate and funny. maybe not for office but dang, she's better than most of them by far and she's not even trying!
faerietails
QUOTE(pollystyrene @ Jan 20 2007, 02:13 PM) *

I lost A LOT of respect for Oprah when she had Bill O'Reilly on a few weeks back and fawned over him. I didn't see it, but I read a critical article about it and basically, he didn't talk so much about his political views, more about his moral stance ("This is why our country's going to hell!")


Oh polly, me too! I used to LOVE Oprah. We're talking love. I feel like I grew up with her. Over the years I'd gotten more and more frustrated with her self-absorbtion, but I still liked her. Until that freaking episode. I saw it twice, and both times I was screaming at the TV non-stop. It was O'Reilly, it was her kissing his ass, it was the token black guy in the audience kissing O'Reilly's ass, and it was the way the show was edited to make "liberals" sound like idiots. It was like the flick of a light switch...all respect was lost in that instant.
kickitkickitkickit
QUOTE(freckleface2727 @ Jan 20 2007, 01:07 PM) *

I'm glad it's not just me that didn't understand that, tho I read it 3x's to be sure...

please explain what you meant kickit?


Hello, I'll be glad to clarify. Another poster had asked:

what would you prefer, the first Black president or the first woman president? either, as long as one of them gets in?

And I'd prefer to see the first female president versus a non-white president. Race to me doesn't matter but I know in politics and in many small minds that it still does. I don't think having a non-white president is going to open many doors as suppose to having a female president (especially one who is as pro-woman and womens rights as Hillary. Don't know what I'm talking about? Take a look at her background and where she started out.) I know someone is thinking well what if Hillary was black? She would still get my vote because her race would not change how I feel about her.
lucizoe
You know what I find really telling about this whole lil' flurry of announcements and speculation? Across the progressive news sites and blogs, supposedly progressive people are assuming that Senator Clinton would draw the vote of every woman in America, regardless of political affiliation, just 'cause she's a woman. I find that so patronizing and insulting.

I absolutely respect the success of every woman in politics - it's the biggest boys' club there is in America and I imagine you have to practically spit nails to be taken seriously. Brava to them all, even Secretary of State Rice, whose politics I find absolutely repugnant.

I agree with polly re- the polarizing affect. Is anyone else from upstate NY? Remember those yellow bumper stickers? If she wins the nomination, the Republicans could probably run someone like Tom DeLay - and win.

Which is depressing. Frankly, I have never believed I would see a woman president in my lifetime, and I still believe that. Not when there are 535 members of Congress and only 74 of those are female. Just not seeing that happening.
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