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anarch
cool article, crazyoldcatlady. Thanks for posting. What a wonderful idea: "They plan on having the compaƱeras meet with the women before the abortion, accompany them during the procedure and then meet with them at periodic increments afterwards as well (two weeks, two months, four months, etc). This mimics the role of a birth doula, who frequently meets with women before and after the birth, and goes beyond the support that most abortion providers currently offer." I hope they're able to get this idea off the ground.

shinyx3, thanks! Your comment about my "strength" has been on my mind and have made me think, actually, that here I am talking about how important it is to be open with out experiences and words, and how our stories hopefully might make a dent in the perception of people who think most women who get abortions do it for convenience and without any forethought or gravitas,...but I have never considered mentioning mine to my one anti-choice friend. If anything might have a chance of getting through to her, it might be a personal story from someone she actually knows.

Really, if I had to pick an anti-choicer to mention it to, she'd be it - a true Christian, by which I mean she's always thinking about how to be a better person, and once she decides her attitude needs adjusting, she follows through in behaviour and words. At least, she always has before. Certainly she's not one to spew natred at me or shove medically inaccurate pictures in my face. She'd certainly be deeply disappointed in me though, and that might change how our friendship feels, for the worse. Well, I'll just keep the idea on the back burner and keep considering how things could turn out.
bunnyfluf
so sorry i disappeared -- got swamped with work and a pinched nerve. :/ but, here goes with the long and winding descrip:

i had my appointment at PP on the 23rd. i wasn't really worried about what protesters would say, as i was committed to my decision, but fortunately none were about. i went in, went through the metal detector while the guard glanced through my bag, and then went into the waiting room to check in. my name was called a couple of times to check insurance info and stuff like that before being called back by a nurse. they asked for a urine sample and then we went for an ultrasound (vaginal). the nurse/technician was very efficient so it was over quickly with a minimum of discomfort. i was then led to the lab where they did a finger prick and collected a small pipette of blood to test my iron levels and rh factor. i was then sent back to the waiting room for a bit.

next, the counselor called me back and we sat in a small room while she made sure that i understood the procedure, including possible risks, and asked me why i was choosing to have an abortion, as well as why i chose the medication method over the dnc method. i told her that i wasn't in a good place personally to be raising a child right now, and the person who happened to be the father was not someone i was wanting a serious relationship with. i also told her that i chose the medication method because it seemed much less invasive to my body and because i wanted to go through the process in the comfort of my own home, rather than the clinic. she thought these were reasonable answers, and asked if i had any questions or concerns. the only doubt i had was that really strong cramps often trigger back spasms from an old accident, and if not taken care of with the proper drugs, could trigger full-body muscle spasms, so i asked for a prescription for percocet. i knew that i had a good reaction to this drug, and it didn't make me loopy at all, just pain/spasm-free. she wasn't sure if they'd be able to write that scrip for me, but she would check. she then sent me back to the waiting room to await the nurse practitioner, who would be giving me the actual medicines.

then the nurse practitioner called me back. she asked me again if i understood the procedure and risks, and i confirmed that i did. the medication abortion works by taking one medicine in the clinic, which stops the pregnancy from developing any further. it was said that this first medicine had possible side effects of nausea, cramping, and possible spotting, but i didn't have any of these. then a second medicine is taken 24 - 48 hours later, and this medicine is what starts the bleeding and passage of pregnancy tissue, and can be accompanied by nausea and strong cramping. the nurse gave me the first medicine, a prescription for anti-nausea medicine to take before the second dose, a prophylactic course of antibiotics, and a prescription for the percocet i was afraid i'd need, along with plenty of informational pamphlets and phone numbers to call in case of emergency. she also gave me a shot in the shoulder of something because i have a negative rh factor, that would prevent any problems in an ensuing pregnancy, in case the baby were to have a positive rh factor.

i took the first medicine in her office, took my other pills and prescriptions and pamphlets, and then checked out. that was that. total time in the clinic: two hours. i wasn't feeling any of the potential side effects or anything other than normal, so i actually went to work for a few hours. my business partner could tell something wasn't right with me, but i wasn't about to go into it with him, so we just hammered away on a few tasks before i went home. i had been expecting to feel worse, and had cleared out my schedule as much as i could, so didn't have much to do except wait for the 24 hours to pass so that i could take the second dose of medicine.

finally, the time came, wednesday evening. i took one of the anti-nausea meds and a preemptive dose of ibuprofen for the cramps an hour before the med, as recommended, so that they would have time to take effect. then i took the four tablets of the second med and held them between my cheek and my gums for an hour, two on each side, as recommended by the PP staff to minimize the nauseating effects. it wasn't that bitter, mostly just chalky. after the hour, i rinsed the rest of the medicine down with a glass of water, as it hadn't dissolved completely. almost exactly an hour after that, i started cramping, mildly at first, but swiftly increasing in intensity. i usually like to take a hot bath to relieve cramps, but baths (and swimming) were prohibited, as that would increase the chance of infection. i took a hot shower instead, but it wasn't helping, and i was starting to feel shaky and dizzy and nauseous, and i could feel my temperature rising as my body reacted to the pain. i had been told a low fever was normal and expected, so wasn't worried. the cramping was swiftly getting worse to where i couldn't sit still or find any comfort, so i took one tablet of hte percocet. within 20 minutes, i couldn't feel the cramping anymore, and just felt normal (again, because percocet doesn't make me loopy like other narcotics, esp valium).

i was told to avoid tampons, which made sense to my body anyway, and to wear pads. i usually use a diva cup, and they said that would probably be fine to use, but again, my body didn't feel like having anything inside it at the moment, so i just used pads. i could feel the material building up, rather than freely leaking out, so i went to the bathroom, sat down and pushed. a flood of tissue and blood came out, very thick, some kind of grainy. the counselor had told me that i could expect to pass clumps of tissue as large as a lemon, which freaked me out a little at the time. i didn't pass anything that large in a coherent clump, but that amount of material may have been about right by the end of the process. this continued for a while, where i would feel it build up, and then go to the bathroom and push it out, maybe every 30 minutes to an hour or so. i made a batch of cookies, and watched the quentin tarantino movie, death proof (probably not the smartest movie selection, but oh well). every three hours or so i would start to feel the cramping again, so i would take half a tablet of the percocet. the amount of material i was passing was dwindling and becoming less tissue and more blood, and was healthy happy looking blood from a normal period, i.e. bright red and not too thick, not too watery.

i had taken the medicine around 6p, started bleeding around 7p, and it was now 2a. i felt like i had passed everything i was going to pass and the cramps were receding so i went to bed. i woke up around 4a from cramping, so took another half-tab of percocet, went to the bathroom to see if there were anything to push out, and then went back to sleep. woke up around 9a, and just felt like a normal period. the "normal" flow rate continued on for about 7 days, so longer than a regular period for me. then i continued to spot very little dark brown blood for the next three weeks, up till today, when i think i've started a new period.

i went for a follow-up appointment two weeks afterwards, on the 6th, so that they could see if the pregnancy had actually terminated and all the pregnancy tissue had been passed. i had taken a home pregnancy test the night before and it showed negative. the nurse was a little surprised when i told her that, because apparently it can take up to six weeks for the hormone levels to go back to normal after the abortion. she said it was a sign that i would probably have a usual period sooner rather than later, as it can be anywhere from 4 - 8 weeks after an abortion to have the next period. their way of confirming the abortion was another vaginal ultrasound, and mine showed that my uterus was indeed back to normal size. the total time in the clinic was only about half an hour this visit.

i wouldn't say it was an easy process, but i think it went as well as could be expected, due mainly to the percocet, which minimized the pain and therefore minimized distress and fever and other side-effects. ibuprofen had absolutely no effect on the cramping, as it was just too intense to compensate for, so i would recommend a stronger pain reliever to anyone else considering this process, something that you know your body tolerates well. i hope i won't have to do this again, but if i do, i won't be afraid and will be able to understand what is happening to my body a little better. also, the only pregnancy symptom i had while pregnant was very tender breasts, which continued for a couple of weeks after the abortion as well. i hope that is a good sign if i become pregnant later, that i won't have horrible morning sickness? *fingers crossed* i also seem to have gain a cup size (B -> C) and this hasn't decreased yet. i can live with that tho. smile.gif

i hope i wrote this out well. feel free to ask any questions you may have. thank you to everyone in this thread for their support and well-wishes.
treehugger
bunny,

Thank you for such a detailed account! HOPEFULLY I never have to go through this again (tubal ligation), but if something were to happen and it were to fail I'd definitely consider this as an option.
shinyx3
bunnyfluff, thanks for posting. i really didn't know much of the medication abortion other than that is an option in some states. it sounds like it maybe truely the more natural way to go.
beck
hey BUSTies. I have been thinking about posting in here for some time now - I hope this is not derailing or inappropriate to the thread, but I thought some might possibly find it helpful or interesting. I recently lost a (planned and very much-wanted) pregnancy at 8 and a half weeks. I have always been very pro-choice although never needed an abortion, and having wanted this baby so much, I found it a little difficult for a while seeing pregnant women and babies.

But you know what? The experience also really strongly reinforced my position on abortion. Partly because it reaffirmed to me the ways in which having a child would change my life and the importance of being prepared for that, but mainly because it really underlined for me the fragility and precariousness of early pregnancy. I really felt that at that stage I was not carrying a 'life', but the potential for one, and the miscarriage really confirmed that in my mind.

And seeing how my body changed, first with the pregnancy, and the process of going through and recovering from the miscarriage (which has taken longer than I expected) also brought home to me the fact that pregnancy and miscarriage themselves take their toll on your body. What I went through is very similar to what bunnyfluff went through, except that it took a lot longer (6 days rather than overnight) because it happened naturally, and some of the side effects/risks are similar to those of abortion.

Not quite sure what my point is now, but I think maybe just to try and reassure those considering abortion that it is not a million miles from what happens naturally anyway, and can be a positive choice for you and your body. I hope this is helpful to people.
xx
princess evangeline
QUOTE(bunnyfluf @ Nov 16 2007, 06:23 PM) *
so sorry i disappeared -- got swamped with work and a pinched nerve. :/ but, here goes with the long and winding descrip:

i had my appointment at PP on the 23rd. i wasn't really worried about what protesters would say, as i was committed to my decision, but fortunately none were about. i went in, went through the metal detector while the guard glanced through my bag, and then went into the waiting room to check in. my name was called a couple of times to check insurance info and stuff like that before being called back by a nurse. they asked for a urine sample and then we went for an ultrasound (vaginal). the nurse/technician was very efficient so it was over quickly with a minimum of discomfort. i was then led to the lab where they did a finger prick and collected a small pipette of blood to test my iron levels and rh factor. i was then sent back to the waiting room for a bit.

next, the counselor called me back and we sat in a small room while she made sure that i understood the procedure, including possible risks, and asked me why i was choosing to have an abortion, as well as why i chose the medication method over the dnc method. i told her that i wasn't in a good place personally to be raising a child right now, and the person who happened to be the father was not someone i was wanting a serious relationship with. i also told her that i chose the medication method because it seemed much less invasive to my body and because i wanted to go through the process in the comfort of my own home, rather than the clinic. she thought these were reasonable answers, and asked if i had any questions or concerns. the only doubt i had was that really strong cramps often trigger back spasms from an old accident, and if not taken care of with the proper drugs, could trigger full-body muscle spasms, so i asked for a prescription for percocet. i knew that i had a good reaction to this drug, and it didn't make me loopy at all, just pain/spasm-free. she wasn't sure if they'd be able to write that scrip for me, but she would check. she then sent me back to the waiting room to await the nurse practitioner, who would be giving me the actual medicines.

then the nurse practitioner called me back. she asked me again if i understood the procedure and risks, and i confirmed that i did. the medication abortion works by taking one medicine in the clinic, which stops the pregnancy from developing any further. it was said that this first medicine had possible side effects of nausea, cramping, and possible spotting, but i didn't have any of these. then a second medicine is taken 24 - 48 hours later, and this medicine is what starts the bleeding and passage of pregnancy tissue, and can be accompanied by nausea and strong cramping. the nurse gave me the first medicine, a prescription for anti-nausea medicine to take before the second dose, a prophylactic course of antibiotics, and a prescription for the percocet i was afraid i'd need, along with plenty of informational pamphlets and phone numbers to call in case of emergency. she also gave me a shot in the shoulder of something because i have a negative rh factor, that would prevent any problems in an ensuing pregnancy, in case the baby were to have a positive rh factor.

i took the first medicine in her office, took my other pills and prescriptions and pamphlets, and then checked out. that was that. total time in the clinic: two hours. i wasn't feeling any of the potential side effects or anything other than normal, so i actually went to work for a few hours. my business partner could tell something wasn't right with me, but i wasn't about to go into it with him, so we just hammered away on a few tasks before i went home. i had been expecting to feel worse, and had cleared out my schedule as much as i could, so didn't have much to do except wait for the 24 hours to pass so that i could take the second dose of medicine.

finally, the time came, wednesday evening. i took one of the anti-nausea meds and a preemptive dose of ibuprofen for the cramps an hour before the med, as recommended, so that they would have time to take effect. then i took the four tablets of the second med and held them between my cheek and my gums for an hour, two on each side, as recommended by the PP staff to minimize the nauseating effects. it wasn't that bitter, mostly just chalky. after the hour, i rinsed the rest of the medicine down with a glass of water, as it hadn't dissolved completely. almost exactly an hour after that, i started cramping, mildly at first, but swiftly increasing in intensity. i usually like to take a hot bath to relieve cramps, but baths (and swimming) were prohibited, as that would increase the chance of infection. i took a hot shower instead, but it wasn't helping, and i was starting to feel shaky and dizzy and nauseous, and i could feel my temperature rising as my body reacted to the pain. i had been told a low fever was normal and expected, so wasn't worried. the cramping was swiftly getting worse to where i couldn't sit still or find any comfort, so i took one tablet of hte percocet. within 20 minutes, i couldn't feel the cramping anymore, and just felt normal (again, because percocet doesn't make me loopy like other narcotics, esp valium).

i was told to avoid tampons, which made sense to my body anyway, and to wear pads. i usually use a diva cup, and they said that would probably be fine to use, but again, my body didn't feel like having anything inside it at the moment, so i just used pads. i could feel the material building up, rather than freely leaking out, so i went to the bathroom, sat down and pushed. a flood of tissue and blood came out, very thick, some kind of grainy. the counselor had told me that i could expect to pass clumps of tissue as large as a lemon, which freaked me out a little at the time. i didn't pass anything that large in a coherent clump, but that amount of material may have been about right by the end of the process. this continued for a while, where i would feel it build up, and then go to the bathroom and push it out, maybe every 30 minutes to an hour or so. i made a batch of cookies, and watched the quentin tarantino movie, death proof (probably not the smartest movie selection, but oh well). every three hours or so i would start to feel the cramping again, so i would take half a tablet of the percocet. the amount of material i was passing was dwindling and becoming less tissue and more blood, and was healthy happy looking blood from a normal period, i.e. bright red and not too thick, not too watery.

i had taken the medicine around 6p, started bleeding around 7p, and it was now 2a. i felt like i had passed everything i was going to pass and the cramps were receding so i went to bed. i woke up around 4a from cramping, so took another half-tab of percocet, went to the bathroom to see if there were anything to push out, and then went back to sleep. woke up around 9a, and just felt like a normal period. the "normal" flow rate continued on for about 7 days, so longer than a regular period for me. then i continued to spot very little dark brown blood for the next three weeks, up till today, when i think i've started a new period.

i went for a follow-up appointment two weeks afterwards, on the 6th, so that they could see if the pregnancy had actually terminated and all the pregnancy tissue had been passed. i had taken a home pregnancy test the night before and it showed negative. the nurse was a little surprised when i told her that, because apparently it can take up to six weeks for the hormone levels to go back to normal after the abortion. she said it was a sign that i would probably have a usual period sooner rather than later, as it can be anywhere from 4 - 8 weeks after an abortion to have the next period. their way of confirming the abortion was another vaginal ultrasound, and mine showed that my uterus was indeed back to normal size. the total time in the clinic was only about half an hour this visit.

i wouldn't say it was an easy process, but i think it went as well as could be expected, due mainly to the percocet, which minimized the pain and therefore minimized distress and fever and other side-effects. ibuprofen had absolutely no effect on the cramping, as it was just too intense to compensate for, so i would recommend a stronger pain reliever to anyone else considering this process, something that you know your body tolerates well. i hope i won't have to do this again, but if i do, i won't be afraid and will be able to understand what is happening to my body a little better. also, the only pregnancy symptom i had while pregnant was very tender breasts, which continued for a couple of weeks after the abortion as well. i hope that is a good sign if i become pregnant later, that i won't have horrible morning sickness? *fingers crossed* i also seem to have gain a cup size (B -> C) and this hasn't decreased yet. i can live with that tho. smile.gif

i hope i wrote this out well. feel free to ask any questions you may have. thank you to everyone in this thread for their support and well-wishes.


voodoo princess here< I too have had this medication method abortion, at a private clinic, and I was administered the medication intial dose the same way, in the office, HOWEVER, I was instructed to NOT take the 2nd dose orally and to instead insert the pills into my vagina..... this seemed odd to me but I was not very very familiar with this procedure and the nurses told me that the 2nd dose is given orally OR vaginally and either is acceptable...... My experience was very like BUNNY's and I did not feel well at all after the 2nd dose took effect and passed very large amounts of "solid matter"...... I do think the recovery time was short, shorter than would have been with a regular DNC..... What really freaked me out though, is that after all this was done, I find out that this "vaginal" administration of the medication is HIGHLY discouraged and can be quite dangerous..... the clinic told me they recommended it because it was "faster" and more"efficient" but never indicated the danger involved.... I was quite upset when I found out and very relieved that I did not have any complications...... While I do recommend this procedure if abortion is something you feel you need to do, I also recommend you research the procedure and not just take some clinics word on everything because there are clinics out there who don't follow the rules and a short cut like the one they had me take could kill you..... If I had known, I would have taken the medication the way it was designed to be taken.....
anarch
bunnyfluf, thank you for such a detailed description. All that info is important for each person to make her choice an informed one. Beck and princess, thanks also for yours.

Not directly related to abortion, but it's been on my mind - I was just talking with my brother the other day about our parents and what a shit our dad was to our mom, and too bad she had to marry him instead of someone who'd have treated her better - someone who'd have been at her level of maturity, instead of dragging her down and making her wonder if she was the crazy one. We agreed that while we think our lives add value to the world, if it would have made our mom's life better, of COURSE we'd have been happy never to have been born.

Anyway, what a great resource this thread is. Thanks all around.
i_am_jan
princess evangeline: Thank you so much for taking the time to get that all down. It's really going to help guide someone through the whole thing letting them get some idea of what to expect. It's so great this info is out there! I actually referred a young friend here recently who is facing an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy and was so glad this was all here, good information straight from women who've made these choices.

PEACE ALL smile.gif
i_am_jan
Just a bump. And a toast ~ to life, and to reproductive freedom of choice! It's here. It's not going away. And we're going to tell our stories like it's no thing but a truth thing. We'll not be afraid to use the word 'abortion' anytime it applies to our lives. PEACE!
knorl05
check it. interesting "debate" on yahoo answers regarding abortion. sign up and say your piece.

o boo. it was deleted. nm.
anarch
*clinks glasses with I_am_jan and other Busties*

To reproductive freedom!

Also, I still thank Cod I made the right decision and had that abortion.

Thanks again, I_am_jan, for starting this thread.
Just like a woman
Hi, all. This thread is amazing and offers some wonderful advice, especially on the emotional effects of having an abortion.

I just found out that I'm pregnant and have a surgical abortion scheduled for February 15. I went back and forth between surgical and medical but was convinced to go with the latter when the nurse on the phone told me that I could have blood clots the size of oranges. (I saw that another person heard they were the size of lemons. What's with all of the citrus fruits?)

The long, detailed post on medical abortion is wonderful and almost swayed me back to that option. If anyone is willing, could I have a similar description of a surgical abortion? Anyone have an opinion as to which is less painful, etc.? Any medical abortion ladies who would go the surgical route if they had it to do over? Vice versa? I know that it is a personal decision, but I'd really appreciate any guidance.

Thanks!
anarch
Just like a woman,

I'll post what I remember of mine, but it was a year ago so a lot of the details have gotten fuzzy. I didin't opt for sedation, but a lot of women do, which means they might not have been conscious of many details and maybe wouldn't remember much.

I went to PP around 10 a.m. and left around 2 pm or so (very busy clinic so I think they wre about an hour behind). They called me in the first time to talk about why I was having the abortion, make sure I was sure about my decision (and unpressured by my husband, probably - we'd started talking to a girl and her friend ni the waiting room, and Mr Anarch told me afterwards that one of them said "Why don't you go in with her?" He said, "Well, they probably prefer to talk to her alone because I could be abusive or something"), and talk about what birth control methods I planned to use. She probably also filled me in on how the procedure works, aftercare information, and prescriptions (painkillers I think, and birth control) but I can't really remember. I told her I didn't want general sedation and she said that was ok, they'd just inject a local.

Went back to waiting room, waited, was called in for the ultrasound. The tech asked, "If it's twins, would you rather not know?" I said I wouldn't mind knowing, but it turned out it was just one. She told me how many weeks along it was. Can't remember anything else about that. Went back to the waiting room.

They called me in to the surgery room. The aide had me undress - bottoms off definitely, but I think they let me keep my short-sleeved top on (I think they needed to take my blodo pressure so long sleeves wouldn't have worked). I was shivering with cold from nervousness. "Put your underwear on top" of the pile of clothes, they said - turns out because the aide put my underwear on for me, afterwards. I put one of those blue sheet thingies over my hips. She had me sit in the chair, put my feet in stirrups. Doctor came in, we chatted about the protestors outside. They went over again, in more detail, how the abortion would proceed. I think (please correct me someone if I get this wrong) they put in a vag speculum, injected a local anaesthetic (into my cervix?) - it took more than one injection, maybe 3 or something, but the first one froze sensation fast so the subsequent ones were more pressure than pain.

I suppose the vacuuming came next. The aide gripped my hand tightly and I was grateful for that. How long did it last? It wasn't one long continuous burst. There might have been 3 times of suctioning, lasting maybe 5-8 seconds each? The doc warned me before each time. Didn't really feel like anything but suctioning, not painful exactly but a sort of strong pressure pulling outward, and as I posted before I beamed love and gratitude toward the foetus, asked it to come back later when I'd be better able to take care of it, pictured its soul returning to the Universe, asked the Universe for things to turn out ok.

When they'd done I felt really cold (shock?), heart thumping, lightheaded. The aide put my underwear on. They told me to put my shoes on (or did I already have my shoes on? can't remember) - anyway, told me to grab my clothes, anddirected me to the recovery room: lots of reclinable doc's office-type chairs with women in them covered in electric blankets, munching on crackers and drinking juice. The electric blanket was fantastic since I was so cold. The juice was to wash down antibiotic pills, and the crackers because taking the antitbiotics on an empty stomach might make you vomit them back up. I put my clothes on a neighboring table or chair. They took my blood pressure, which was sky high,both numbers, and worried the person who took it, but when she asked someone else about it they said "Oh, that's very common with people who don't get sedation," so she just kept on taking my bp ever few minutes to make sure that it would come down and it did within about 10 minutes. I'd have loved to stay there under the blanket for a while but of course they needed the chair for others, so I probably was in it for 15 minutes total before I said I felt ready to stand up and walk.

They showed me into a one-stall bathroom to change into my street clothes and check how much blood was on the maxipad (the aide must have put a maxipad into my underwaer before she put them on me). They gave me a birth control pill prescription, directions on how and when to start them, went over again the aftercare directions and what to watch out for (bleeding heavily like filling up more than several maxipads in an hour). I went out into the waiting room, my husband drove us home, I took a tyleno or advil or something (there was somewarning about using one but not the other, can't remember the reason) as a pre-emptive measure against pain though I wasn't really feeling much. I sat on the couch listening to an audiobook until I fell asleep. Never had to fill the prescription for a stronger painkiller. My bleeding lasted for less than a week and was never heavy. I don't remember any clots but I may have had some (if so, nothing interesting).

If I had to do it over again, I'd be happy with surgical again. The main reason I chose surgical rather than medical was the thing about the pills maybe not being able to get everything out and so I might have to go in and get the surgical procedure anyway, to make sure everything was out. I hate having to redo things just because the first attempt didn't work properly. The fact that I had someone to drive me back was huge though. They strongly recommended not using public transportation by myself, to get myself back home.
obelix2
Thanks, Anarch. I've never had one, and I hope I never have to (but would in a heartbeat if I got pregnant). I've wondered exactly how the procedure goes.
datagirl
I had an abortion last year August the 15th.
I would have been due around April (I really don't want to know the actual date). I'm beginning to feel alot of sadness
regarding the seposed birth of the baby I carried for just seven weeks.
I'm starting to think about it more often.And if I see an ultrasound on TV I get a bit emotional.
All the feelings come back to haunt me.I remember a couple of days after I had the termination I was really
teary.Crying all the time.I know that it was the pregnancy hormones but it felt real to me at the time.I had to go through all that at work too.
Something I never want to have to do again.
I know that I made the right decision for me.So why am I getting so emotional?

i_am_jan
Datagirl: it's okay to have conflicting feelings datagirl. ((((hugs)))) It may take you a little while to work through all of those emotions. Abortion is not an easy choice to make, it's one of the most difficult (if not the most) any woman will ever have to make, so it's normal to have emotions and be sensitive about it.
amazonprincess
Datagirl- that sounds a lot like what I went though, which I understand is pretty normal grieving for what we went though. Hang in there, it does get easier.
dayglowpink
Yes, I went through a lot of sadness as well. I would get very emotional on the anniversaries of my abortions for years. It's funny, typing that just made me realize that yesterday was one of my anniversaries. I actually hadn't even remembered it, which I guess is somewhat of a good sign; maybe I've been able to process and deal with some of the feelings. There are definitely mixed emotions. I am grateful and happy that I don't have any kids and that I was able to make that choice, but I also feel a lot of regret and grief about my abortions. I think it will always be like that to a certain extent, but for me, it has gotten easier with time.
datagirl
I had to go home early from work yesterday as I couldn't stop crying.On the way to work I saw a very pregnant woman waiting at a
set of traffic lights and I just got so sad.
I would have been due in April.
I got to work feeling ok but then I cut myself accidentally with a staple.I went into the toilets and just couldn't stop crying.
Afterwards I got a message from one of the managers that there were going to be even more changes to rules at work concerning our customers.
It's like I've been asked to tell them one thing,then management goes and changes the rules.Making me look like a real idiot.
So I asked to have an emergency meeting with my direct manager.She's amazing.This woman should be a councilor.
I told her everything.About the termination,about the effect that some decisions at work are having on depression.About my stress.
Then she told me that she had had two terminations and two miscarriages in her life.
Then we had this big conversation about changes and adversity.I'm planning on resigning and for the sake of my mental health and growth,she thought this was a good idea.I'm really good at my job so she wouldn't say this to get rid of me at all.
And it's definately not the average place to work in.It's pretty emotional and I think my work coupled with the termination and
childhood sexual abuse memories has just really,really dragged me down.I was just coasting and telling myself that I could handle it.
After work I went to the doctor and told him everything.I'd been to this medical centre before but I'd never seen him.
He was the loveliest doctor I've ever been to.English,calm,concerned and soflty spoken.
He prescribed only 2 valium for me to calm me down as I'd told him that I'd had thoughts of suicide and have self harmed in the past.I wouldn't have tried to suicide but he was just being cautious.
So then he called the mental health team in my area.They were talking about sectioning me again because of the thoughts of self harm I was having.I convinced him that I wasn't going to do anything stupid (and I didn't). I am however having a mental health officer access me on Saturday to see a phychiatrist as I don't have private health insurance.I'm home from work today on the opinion of my doctor and am still a bit teary.I don't know how this will all pan out.
I really did think that because my pregnancy was unwanted that I didn't have the right to go through these mourning feelings that I'm going through right now.I just feel so sad.I just feel so guilty.And then I feel even worse when I remember that I'm pro-choice.So I really shouldn't complain.
dayglowpink
(((datagirl)))

You're entitled to whatever feelings you are having. I'm sorry things are rough right now. It sounds like you have some helpful people around you, and you are taking care of yourself, and that's important.
amazonprincess
((datagirl))

You absolutely have the right to have the feelings you are having. It was shocking to me the level of grief I felt and those feelings that you are describing of not deserving to grieve. I appreciate that you are posting your feelings here so that this dialogue can continue and the validation for what ever feelings we feel can happen. I'm glad you're receiving support.
sexysandee
(((datagirl)))
shelbs
This coming saturday, at 4 weeks pregnant, I'll be going to Planned Parenthood to get a medication abortion. I used to work for NARAL Pro-Choice America, so I have a wealth of knowledge on the subject of abortion, but I'm still finding myself extremely scared. I'm 23, took Plan B after the condom broke, but still ended up in this situation - a place where I never really thought I'd see myself. I definitely am not at a point where I can have a baby, and the medication abortion feels like the right choice for me, but I'm wondering about recovery time. I'll be taking the second dose Monday, most likely after I get home from work. Should I plan on calling in sick the next day? I'm planning on having a friend with me for the actual event (the guy is not someone I'm serious with, and actually lives in a different state) - should I ask her to spend the night? I live alone, so would it be safer for someone to be there the whole time?

There are just so many questions swimming around in my head that I'm hoping someone here can give me the answers to the ones there are answers for. That way I'll feel far more confident going into this, and maybe the "what would my baby look like?" or "is it a boy or a girl?" questions might not seem quite so important.

Honestly, when I first found out I just couldn't stop laughing, but lately the shock has worn off and it's finally settling in and I'm afraid. But, I figure knowledge is power and power trumps fear, so anything you've got I'd appreciate.
obelix2
Hi Shelbs, welcome to Bust. I'm afraid I don't have any answers, but I wanted to make sure you didn't feel snubbed in this thread. Some of our threads are more frequently used than others. If nobody responds here, you might try cross-posting in the General Health Questions thread (with a note that you're cross-posting). That one gets more traffic, and somebody might have an answer there. There are lots of quirks about the Bust Lounge that only become apparent after a while.

Good luck!
shinyx3
shelbs, if you look back a to the bottom of this page and the prior one there is some really good info on medication abortion. i have not personally had one (it was not an option to me at the time a had my abortion) so i can't give any insight but there are those here who have so look back a little and see if that helps. keep us posted on how you are doing ans we will all be here for you.
i_am_jan
Shelbs: Yes, I believe there is info below on medication abortion. I regret I can't tell you myself, but I did want to say good luck with everything...yes, I believe having a friend stay the night with you would definitely be good. No need to be by yourself, and I'm sure your girlfriend will be happy to listen if you want to talk about things, which is great. That's pretty funny how you started laughing, I can see how you might find it rather ironic, and I do remember finding the irony myself, ha ha?. Well anyway, again, best wishes to you, and good health as well, and do come back with any comments if there's anything you want to share or remark about. Take care.

((((hugs everyone))))
dusty
I'm not entirely sure what drugs are used in the US, but could this site be helpful?
anarch
Good luck, shelbs. We're here for you.

Side note: I just found another site (following feministing links from yesterday's Apr 1 post on "crisis pregnancy centers") that posts stories from women who aren't sorry they had abortions:
I'mNotSorry.net

ExpatRiot
Hey, I'm a newbie here, and while this perhaps has been addressed, I think I am in a rather unique situation and could really use some advice.
I am 26 years old and getting my MA in Stockholm, Sweden. I have lived here for a year and a half and love it. I was in a dysfunctional relationship with a Swede here, K, for a long time. We broke up about 6 months ago. A while ago we met for coffee, which actually turned into dinner and a few too many beers. We were both unhappy in our current relationships, and ended up sleeping together. He told me later he had been hoping it would happen, but I was just drunk and taken off guard. He knows that I am not on the pill, and we were previously stupid and did the whole pull out thing. This time, I was too drunk to remember, but I thought he came in me. So, I messaged him about it, he didn't get back to me, and I took a morning after pill.
A few weeks later, no period. Sore boobs, nausea, I just knew. Took the test, it was positive, so I called him. Right away he made it clear that he wanted me to have an abortion. There were lots of fights because I couldn't make such a quick decision. I made an appointment, for 2 weeks later, so it could happen if that is what I chose. Sweden is an interesting climate for abortion; a friend of mine has had 4 so she gave me a referral to her favorite place. They are wonderful, provide a cab home, lots of counseling, no judgement. I am lucky to be here.
All the same, I have been extremely hesitant. We were irresponsible, and I am mature enough to think about how to deal with it. While I am totally pro-choice, I am not sure I personally want to terminate my pregnancy. I think children are a blessing, and while I am not ready to be a mother, I would potentially like to share it with a family who is unable to have their own. All the same, I can also see how an abortion would be easiest in the continuity of my life.
I have shared this thought process with K every step. He has been aggressive and assertive about his desire for me to terminate. On the day of the procedure, yesterday, I thought I agreed. However, when I got to the clinic, I freaked and backed out.
I am 5 weeks along and there is time yet for me to make a decision I can live with. When I told K that I had backed out, it was his turn to freak. He told me I am crazy, that he hates me, that I am no longer a part of his life, and he never wants to see me. BUT if I have the baby, I cannot give it up for adoption. Then it will be "his." If I try to leave Sweden, he will prevent me from doing it.
Communication has never been great between us, thus the end of our relationship. I must, however, admit that I am more than a little confused. He wants me to kill the baby, but if I don't, then we must raise it together? And he no longer wants to talk to me, so how can we possibly reach a decision together? I feel as though he is trying to assert control over me, and I suppose as an American feminist I am fighting for my right to control my body. I know I owe him a say in the decision making process, but I am having a very hard time rationalizing with this 31 year old man.
I would love insight. Both into the decision I have before me and how to approach K with this so that we can communicate more effectively.
Thanks so much. This Bustie is a looong way from home!
anarch
drive-by posting, sorry, but he 1. knew you weren't on the pill but stuck his dick in you anyway, 2. demanded that you abort, 3. claims that if you don't abort it's his, 4. he doesn't want to talk to you any more? WTF? Sounds like an irresponsible control freak. IMHO you don't owe him any say in the decision making process. He hasn't demonstrated the maturity to deserve it. But he sounds like he may get on a "father's rights" bandwagon. "Prevent" you from leaving the country - is that credible? What do Swedish courts think of that kind of "father's rights"?

(((ExpatRiot)))
auralpoison
Expat, you got a lot goin' on there, girl.

It really doesn't sound like you're ready for a baby. Or an abortion. And you're lukewarm on adoption. You have a lot of HARD questions to ask yourself if you're gonna do what's right for you:

Do you need, not *want* a child right now?
Are you mentally/emotionally/financially able to take on the responsibility of starting a family?
What kind of support system(family/friends) do you have over there?
Is K the person that you want to your kid to share DNA with?
Should you keep it, do you accept that K is an asshole & that as the father of your child, he's always going to be a part of your life?
How is your strained relationship with him going to affect the kid over the years?
Is he even going to want to see the kid or be even remotely responsible for it? Will he look at it, see you & hate it since he hates you? You said he was abusive, how do you think he'd treat your kid?
If he does try to take it, what kind of laws protect you; can you afford a lawyer?
Is his family able to make claims on the child? I don't know the laws in Sweden, but I know grandparent's rights is on the rise here.
Should you abort it, do you think you could *eventually* get used to the fact that you made what you thought was the best choice at the time for you & your offspring? You don't have to be okay with it immediately. Just sometime down the line. And let's face it, you are watching a ticking clock term-wise.

I appreciate that you see children as gifts. But in reality they are simply our biological imperative & a hell of a lot of work. I'm not dissing the procreatively challenged, but, um, it's easy for most people to get pregnant.

And adpotion, chica? Is really fucking cool. And it hooks up the procreatively challenged. If they can afford to drop $100000 in fertility procedures, they can send your baby to a good college. And depending on the agency, you might get to meet them after they turn eighteen.

I also think K's threat to take the child away from you is idle. I mean, he wants you to have an abortion. What does he think is going to happen if he keeps the fruit of your union & cuts you out? Is he gonna farm it off to relatives or something? Put it up for adoption himself? I think for him the responsibilty of raising a child would be a poor trade for hurting you, even if he gets off on it.

Good luck on whatever choice you make. But I'd make the choice to stay away from that asshole until you've made your official choice. He doesn't need to be clouding your thoughts with abuse & blackmail at this crucial juncture in your life.
JoanClayton
Hi Expat,

As far as the adoption thing, I seriously wonder would you be able to give your baby away willingly and happily after you have carried (and BONDED with) it to term? I ask because I carried twins that I never thought I would have. Like you I went to the clinic to abort, but I backed out. Once I decided that I could not abort them it was like instantaneously I felt relieved and became so consumed and happy to decorate their room, and shop for them, and feel them, and talk to them, etc., while they were in my womb... (This is coming from someone who never really wanted kids mind you... they will be 4 this year and I still feel this way at times (most of the time), just to be honest) Keeping them changed my path and life forever...Its a decision I can't reverse, I just try to make the best of it now.

I feel that the dad is only unecessarily stressing and worrying you, not being supportive of any of the routes that you want to take in this decision that is yours. I would eliminate him from the equation and start to realistically focus on what you will ultimately decide to do.

There are so many different deciding factors when dealing with pregnancy....And with pregnancy once you decide something its like a decision that can never be changed...unlike so many other things in life where we can decide one thing, but do another....Thats what helped me decide...I know in my heart that if it had been 1 baby I would have aborted. But by it being 2 I just felt that it was a sign and was meant for me. I feel as though the decision came from else where, and not me. Its like you will know which is the best way for you to go. I can't explain it.

I know I'm rambling, probably not even making sense. I guess I just wanted to show some support. I really would like to know if you have come to a conclusion yet. I know that time is of the essence...

Take care and everything will be ok. No matter which you decide...

(((((*****EXPAT*****)))))
deepthinker
I'll warn you now, what I'm going to say may not be very popular here, but I feel the need to say something regarding this topic. I apologize now, in case I come across as rude or mean in this post, as that's certainly not how I intend what I am about to say.

First off, let's look at the actual child itself here. Now I can understand things are rough when pregnant, for various reasons depending on the circumstances surrounding it but....why should the baby be punished for something it had no say over? It's not it's fault it got there, the fact is it's there, and deserves life and love just as much as any other human being does.

Staying on that, think about your own lives for a second. Now imagine you never existed, or you yourself were aborted. It's a scary thought isn't it? I almost was aborted myself, and I could have had an older sibling but it was aborted. I always wonder how my life might have been different had I had that older brother or sister, just where it would be now.

Something else too, is there's the fact that there are so many women out there who actually do want kids but cannot have them for various reasons. These are women who would do anything for a child, and yet many who do have that chance, just throw it away. You ladies have been given one of the greatest gifts imaginable (if not the greatest), in the ability to bring new life into the world, why not embrace it?

Lastly, where does the dad or for that matter other family members fit into all this, like grandparents, aunts and uncles. It's not just your kid of course, do their feelings or thoughts mean nothing?

Just some things to chew on.....
pollystyrene
I'm going to restrain my response, as I'm not sure having an abortion debate is really the purpose of this thread, and since I've never had one (an abortion, not the debate), I don't feel it's my place to make that decision about what goes on in here.

....but I'll lurk, waiting to strike. dry.gif
dusty
Ok, I'll wade in.

First off, I think that parenthood is probably the (second) most intimate relationship you can have with someone. This guy seems abusive, and I would not want to be tied to him for life. But its your CHOICE, Expat.

Next up, FUCK OFF Deepthinker.
mornington
((((expat)))) hope you're ok.


DT... ok. this thread is not for an abortion debate in terms of morality. You've said elsewhere that you were brought up as - and were - a practicing catholic, and yes, your points sound like the bullshit the church likes to come out with. But please, be aware that this is a practical, right-now discussion. We're not arguing about the morality, but discussing the practicality and using this as a safe space to support our individual choices. Now, as I've never had an abortion (or been pregnant) I tend to stay the fuck away because I don't feel I have much to add to the thread. Read through AP's questions. That's what's being discussed.
lilacwine13
*delurks*

Expat, I recently went through a similar experience, and the questions Auralpoison posted were the ones I was asking myself. My boyfriend, though, wanted the kid and we did have supportive families, yet it still wasn't an ideal time for us to start a family, and we have issues to work through between us, plus we really weren't prepared either emotionally or financially to raise a child the way we wanted to.

In the end, we decided to try to make things work out for the best and to have the kid, but the pregnancy ended in miscarriage, which hurt, both physically and emotionally.

But like the others here have said, it is your choice. You are the one who will to decide whether or not to carry it, and whether or not you want to be a mother right now. Just because I chose one route doesn't mean I want everyone else to do the same; that would be cruel and unreasonable.

It is a very difficult decision, and I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do.



And like mornington said, this isn't the place for a philisophical debate about abortion, so I won't even go there.

*relurks*
neurotic.nelly
((((((((expat))))))))

I've had one, and I'm glad I did, for me it was the right decision at the time. I totally freaked too, but the other way, there was no doubt in my mind that I had to get an abortion.

I think that if you sit with yourself and reallllllllllly listen, the right action for you to feel okay with yourself will emerge. This is most important!!!!!!! I wouldn't want to regret a decision like this, either way.

You do not have to take that asshole of a man's opinions, or feelings into account. He lost his rights when he started being a dick!!

DT, she's obviously already thinking about some of the points you brought up, no need to pour salt on an already open wound... not cool dude.

roseviolet
(((((((((ExPat))))))))))))))))



DeepThinker, I'll put my response to you in the "Take It Outside" thread.
damona
*delurk*

((((((expat))))) i've been there. i got pregnant with my oldest at 17 and i considered abortion and adoption both. in the end, i decided that i was going to have and raise my child, but that doesn't mean i'm going to insist you do the same! and no one else has the right to make your decision for you, either! i honestly don't know what swedish laws are regarding abortion and the partners rights, etc., but i do know that they are a very family-friendly country, if you do decide to go thru with the pregnancy.

i think ap really hit most of the salient points in her post, i don't have much to add except for tea and sympathy.

*relurks*
konphusion26
Good morning every-bustie,

I don't really have much to say. I know a few women around me that have terminated pregnancies for health reasons. But, I have a very close friend (former college buddy) that has had at least 4 abortions since I've known her. When she tells me about it, it disturbs & saddens me for many reasons: one, she is deliberately not practicing safe sex with multiple partners and bragging about it; two, she seems to keep popping up pregnant by these fly-by-night "boyfriends" who scatter once they find out she's with child; then it's off to the clinic like its a routine thing. While I'm not judging her at all - I find myself wondering how she can keep putting herself in those situations. I guess its not for me to understand; yet as a friend I'm supposed encourage and support her without being judgemental or harsh. I really want to shake some sense into her. Her last pregnancy (#5 I think), was "twins" I guess you could call it. One baby was in her fallopian tube and the other in her uterus. She ended up miscarrying both. I'm curious to know if that could be from all the terminations she's had????

It really breaks my heart that she keeps getting into this kinda stuff. I mentally/emotionally can't handle it. I really don't see how she handles it like its an everyday thing.

anyway, I had to get that off my chest. Its been bothering me for a month since I talked to her. You gals have a lovely day.
kittenb
I am hesitant to write this here b/c I don't want to derail the thread. However, I don't want to take it to the "Take it Outside" thread b/c it isn't a confrontatation. So I am going to put it here and hope for the best.

konphusion - I read a book called The Girls Who Went Away about the girls b/w 1945-1970's who had to surrender thier babies to adoption. It was not uncommon for some of these girls to wind up getting pregnant again after surrendering a child. While they were unable/not allowed to address their own grieving process, it seemed that their bodies "wanted" to be pregnant. The book explains it better than I can.

It sounds to me like your friend has some strong mental health issues going on. My guess: depression. I can only imagine the physical toll that 4 abortions would have on a woman's psyche and spirit. However, it is more her unwillingness to practice safe sex w/what sounds like random hookups. As I think most of us know, safe sex isn't about just not getting pregnant. It is about respecting and loving ourselves enough that we also don't want to get sick. I think you can love and support your friend non-judgementally w/o condoning everything that she does. Maybe it is time for a conversation/intervention to find out what is the root of her self-destructive behavior.
konphusion26
Thank you Kittenb! Why would we have to go to the take it outside thread? I definitely agree with you! I'm the type of person I want to help the people I love. I want to help but she has told me plenty of times she doesn't need it and not to preach to her or whatever. I definitely am not a preacher. But, if something is bothering me, I'm going to let it be known. She has a 6 yr old son already. I am so afraid that she will call me one day and say she's got HIV or some other illness she can't get rid of. Its just irresponsible. We're not 15- we know what the consequences can be... I don't think she loves/respects her self at all. So, i make it a point to tell her I love her each time we speak. Then she puts up this front like she's so tough and bad-ass, and she doesn't need anybody to tell her anything. Right.

I will have to check that book out. Thank you so much for your response.
candycane_girl
konphusion, I don't really know what to tell you. It just doesn't make sense for her to keep having unprotected sex if she's just going to keep having abortions. It's as if there's something inside her that's not connecting the dots. Don't get me wrong, I'm very pro-choice but I don't believe in using abortions as a form of birth control. Also is she not worried about std's at all? I agree with kittenb, she might be suffering from depression. I know that when I was really horribly depressed I did some things in my sex life that I'm not at all proud of. I wish I could offer some more advice.
starshine
Iittenb, why worry about taking this outside. Mutliple abortions/abortions as a form of birth control are big issues within the pro-choice and pro-life debates. And something that I see a lot of women struggle with when they are faced with the option of a second, or third, or sixth for that matter, abortion. I have seen a lot of helplessness, shame and guilt around these choices. (And also an example or two of women being so incredibly relieved and overjoyed at the decisions they've made and having chosen to have an abortion, but that's a whole other story.)

I'm such a huge believer that birth control and condoms are a form of self-respect. I work in a woman's shelter and a lot of the work we like to do is around developing a sense of self worth/empowerment work. It's amazing the number of women who don't use either, and have such incredibly low opinions of themselves, and who think that only the man's opinion counts, and when he says no to condoms, then she has no right to say anything. And then they're the ones having to deal with the options of abortion, adoption or raising another child when they already have two who are about to be apprehended by the Ministry.

Louise Hay's book You Can Heal Your Life is an oldy, but really good book that emphasizes self-worth and self-love. I've found it extremely helpful in the support work that I do. She also just put out a movie based on the book which is really good, but the book is way more comprehensive, though a very accessible and easy read.
auralpoison
Has anybody heard from ExpatRiot post-Deepwanker's self-righteous thang? I sent her an email, but got nothing back. I may not know her, but I want to have her back. I support her choice.
konphusion26
QUOTE(candycane_girl @ Apr 28 2008, 12:50 AM) *
konphusion, I don't really know what to tell you. It just doesn't make sense for her to keep having unprotected sex if she's just going to keep having abortions. It's as if there's something inside her that's not connecting the dots. Don't get me wrong, I'm very pro-choice but I don't believe in using abortions as a form of birth control. Also is she not worried about std's at all? I agree with kittenb, she might be suffering from depression. I know that when I was really horribly depressed I did some things in my sex life that I'm not at all proud of. I wish I could offer some more advice.


Dammit she's pregnant again....
Sound Of Vision
QUOTE(konphusion26 @ Jun 6 2008, 08:14 AM) *
Dammit she's pregnant again....


*speechless after reading the whole story*

...

I've been thinking about this thing since elementary school (while my friends still played with dolls I think), and although my mother never talked to me about it and my country isn't exactly the most liberal one (too Catholic) I made my stands clear: abortion should be option for every woman but as a last resort and avoided as much as possible.
I don't think of it as a murder or anything pro-life activists claim, but it is huge messing with your body and psyche.

I want to slap women who abuse it, who are so stupid (I must say that) not to use birth control of any kind and are therefore forced to do such thing. I hope I will never be in such situation, because it would devastate me. I am pro-choice but because of such women I avoid to mention the word.
konphusion26
QUOTE(Sound Of Vision @ Jun 6 2008, 07:07 AM) *
*speechless after reading the whole story*

...

I want to slap women who abuse it, who are so stupid (I must say that) not to use birth control of any kind and are therefore forced to do such thing. I hope I will never be in such situation, because it would devastate me. I am pro-choice but because of such women I avoid to mention the word.


Yeah SOV, I'm speechless too hun. It makes me very angry. She called me yesterday morning and goes "guess what, I'm pregnant"... I was like, "ALREADY??" so she gets kinda crappy with me after that. Dude, its been maybe 2 months since she lost the twins she was pregnant with. How in the heck are you pregnant again already? It sickens me, yet she expects me to be happy for her. NO I'm not. Not at all. Yes its her body but thats not my issue with it. My issue is, she's being irresponsible with her fertility, with her body. I'm hoping she will keep this one if she carries it to term. I had to truly bite my tongue yesterday. Gah!
anarch
More on medical vs surgical abortions.

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