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ketto
That sucks candycane. In Winnipeg we get AMC on regular shaw cable. I'm so excited for the new season. I think I need to re-watch the last half of season 2 on the 10th to refresh some of the details.
candycane_girl
Boourns, I'm jealous. My building has some weirdo cable company that most people have never even heard of. I realized after reading your post that my cousin who had digital cable with Rogers got AMC. But in my hometown people can only get Cogeco and I don't think they offer AMC either. Whatever, I just want to see the show!
lananans
Booo Cogeco - I had them for the longest time. I'm with Rogers now and I do get AMC - I was shocked when I found out!

I can't wait for the new season.. I saw a preview of the costume closet and I nearly died.
candycane_girl
Unfortunately stupid cogeco has a monopoly over the cable in my hometown. It's so stupid. My mom says that she gets letters that are just like "Hey, we're upping the cost of our services" so often! They're constantly increasing their costs.

Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread. Apparently Sesame Street is going to do a Mad Men parody! I can't wait for that.
auralpoison
So . . . last night was quite . . . revelatory, no?
roseviolet
On the whole, I liked it. Mainly I'm just glad the show is back!

The opening scenes were odd. I understand that we were watching Don's imaginings of the events that led to his birth, but I wish they hadn't staged those scenes in his kitchen. It was kinda confusing. Plus it felt a little too community-college-theater-production-y to me.

Loved the whole Pete/Ken thing, but that's just because I love it when anything irritates Pete. biggrin.gif

Also, I loved the moment when they went from Don's office & all the guys drinking whisky to the office of the British Guy where Moneypenny is pouring a cup of tea. It was a good demonstration of the cultural differences that are creating conflict in the merger. That plus Joan's comments ("an elevator is a lift" and so forth). For a change I'm interested to see what happens business-wise with Sterling Cooper this season. I don't think it will be pretty.

Speaking of the office, Cooper's art collection just keeps getting more interesting, doesn't it? I noticed a distinct lack of Duck last night. Think he's gone for good?


As for Sal & the bellhop ... part of me was thrilled that Sal was finally getting some. But part of me felt sad because Pandora's Box is open now and I'm afraid things are going to get much worse for Sal before it can get better. I don't think Don will tell anyone (if anyone can keep a secret it's Don). Rather, I think that now Sal will find that he can't suppress his urgings anymore & he'll take some big risks in order to be with other men. I'm afraid he'll get really hurt or sick. Then there's his wife. Poor Kitty.
thirtiesgirl
I'd agree with Rose's assessment of Sal. I remember how "shocked but excited" he looked last season when the European intern openly admitted in the office that he's gay. It was a great moment.

I'm also glad that Pete's discomfited that he's now sharing a title and workload with Ken Cosgrove. Let's hope he actually steps up and handles it with some grace.

I love the fact that there's a male secretary among the "girls" now, which should be an interesting development. Even though I think Joan's decision to put him in an office was a good one, to keep him away from the other women, I loved that his boss told him it was presumptuous to have him sitting in an office, and he should be sitting "out front." Just what he needed.

I was actually interested to find out that Don/Dick Whitman was a 'found child,' so to speak, that the parents who raised him weren't his biological parents. It gives yet another layer to the whole "who is Don Draper/Dick Whitman?" question, with the added mystery of his birth. As an adoptee myself, I know what it's like to live with that underlying question, always wondering what your bio parents would have been like and how different your life might have been if they'd kept you. No wonder Don wanted to create this 'perfect family' for himself that seems to be such a trap for him.
roseviolet
Thirties, have you not seen the first season of this show? That's when we find out about Don's/Dick's past. I don't feel like the little scenes at the beginning told us much more than what we already knew: his mother, a prostitute, died in childbirth so Dick was given to his father (who was married to a different woman) to be raised. The only revelation I got from all that was the origin of his name and even that feels far fetched. Somehow I just can't believe that he was named Dick because his mother kept muttering "I'm gonna cut off his dick and boil it in hog fat" as she lay dying. Seriously, that may be the most fucked up thing I've seen on this show. I mean, I know Don knows his lineage (he was called "whore child" a lot in his youth by the very people who raised him) but the fact that they found out the origin for his name AND told him about it is WAY fucked up.

I found out what happened to Duck Phillips! In the final episode of season 2, Duck was all set to be president of the company after the merger. Pete was going to replace him as head of accounts. However, Don basically told the higher-ups that if Duck was president, he'd walk. So in between season 2 & 3, they got rid of Duck. Burt - the guy who got laid off at the beginning of this new episode - replaced Duck as head of accounts.
auralpoison
I thought the flashbacks were more than a little hokey. But having the show back & having Jared Harris in the cast now rocks.
candycane_girl
I haven't seen last night's episode yet because I don't have cable. Does anyone know where I can find it online? surfthechannel.com and alluc.org don't have it at all (which is strange). They usually link to megavideo and I can't find it there either.
Jezebel
I'm Peggy Olson and I want to smoke some marijuana.
kittenb
Bes line ever!
ketto
Such a good episode. I know we're only 3 in, but I'm loving it more and more. Is anyone else reading the weekly discussions at feministing.com?

http://www.feministing.com/archives/017294.html
http://www.feministing.com/archives/017400.html
http://www.feministing.com/archives/017510.html
kari
jezebel, I know! That line was awesome. Ol' Peggy is cutting loose. I really enjoyed the scenes of Joan at home this week. And Don is getting more respectable. Oh! and Pete's dance had me rolling.
missladyj
I'm hoping that Joan starts to see that she is too good for her man and calls off the wedding. He does not deserve her awesomeness.
Him: I don't want to fight
Joan: then stop talking

perfection
ketto
Missladyj, they're already married. They were married around Christmas 1962 and it's around May 1963. Her husband scared me, he had some very subtle abusive tendencies. It was interesting to see Joan realize (through all the comments of the party guests) that she's the one bringing her husbands status up, and not the other way around.
auralpoison
Subtle abusive tendencies? Let's not forget that he pretty much raped her in whatshisname's office last season.
ketto
I'd outright say he raped her, no question or "pretty much about it", but I was just referring in particular to the party they were having at their place. The way he pulled the vacuum from the wall, their almost fight, the way he looked at her or talked to her at the party and made her put on a show. What's scary is that I can see a lot of people who enjoy this show but don't really pay that much attention to all the subtext who don't really even notice those kind of behaviours from his character. Creepy.
roseviolet
I think that people who don't enjoy subtext are the very people who don't enjoy this show. The fans definitely notice the power Joan's husband holds over her ... and that it isn't good for her. It's interesting to see the subtle and not-so-subtle forms of abuse in relationships on this show.

I loved the moment when Joan played the accordian for their dinner guests. We all know that she enjoys attention and under certain circumstances she'd be happy to perform, but on her own terms. This was thrust upon her by her husband who was attempting to distract attention from himself. She saw right through it, but she put on a good performance anyway. Did she do it to avoid a scene? To protect her husband? Probably a bit of both, but at the same time she clearly wants to know what he's hiding. I wonder if she'll muster up the courage to ask him about it.
ketto
That's what I would figure too, but I keep running into folks who don't seem to get the statements the show is making. It's bizarre. I recently read a good interview with Christina Hendricks. I can't find it now but she said people kept coming up to her and talking about the scene were Joan was "sort of raped" and Christina Hendricks said, "What do you mean? She was raped!"

I was kind of confused by the very last scene of the show with Don and Betty. I wonder what it means for the two of them...They're dynamic so far this season is very interesting.

I heart peggy.
designermedusa
I love Joan, and really thought Roger's new wife (can't remember her name) was totally a bitch to her when she visited the office. I was thinking "please bitch, you are not even in the same atmosphere as Joan, get over yourself". I really hope Joan gets away from her husband, first the rape and then the obvious abusive and controlling behavior. I know it's the 60's, but I refuse to believe a woman like Joan would put up with that for very long. So did it say what her husband did, I wasn't sure if it implied he accidentally killed a patient?

I also love Peggy eventhough she is so different from Joan. I'm proud of Peggy for breaking down the doors and asserting herself more and more.

I can't wait to see where this season takes Sal and his wife, seems like it's going to get interesting.

I'm bored with the storyline with Betty's dad.
roseviolet
Ketto, that is bizarre. How can they not see that?

Joan's attraction to her husband has always confused me. I found it very odd that she lied to him about her sexual experience before they married. I have a feeling she's hidden a lot of things about herself from him. But why? Sure, he looks good on paper - handsome, doctor-to-be - but certainly a woman like Joan had offers from plenty of other eligible bachelors. Why settle for this one? Is it because she's in her 30s? Was she worried that she'd waited too long to marry & she should take whatever guy who came around who appeared moderately respectable?

I'm kinda bored of the storyline with Betty's dad, but mainly because it puts me on edge more than any other storyline. I'm so afraid he's going to wander off or hurt the kids or assault Betty or something. Plus it reminds me of some of the inappropriate behavior of my own grandfather in the final years of his life. I'd rather not be reminded of those things.

It's interesting to hear all of the different interpretations on the web of Peggy's recent behavior. Some people say that she finally really knows what she wants & she's going for it. Personally, I think she has decided to embrace lots of new experiences & see what sticks. She doesn't quite know what she wants or who she wants to be, but she's going to experiment until she finds the things that satisfy her.

Roger has descended into a big, stereotypical joke. I'm not sure if it was wise for Don to call him out on it. I'll be interested to see how this affects their relationship.

Looking forward to seeing more focus on Sal tonight!
girltrouble
i LOVED tonite's episode.

i love seeing peggy and joan interacting. they seem almost like two sides of the same coin-- both had some business aspirations, although joan put hers away when they took that job away from her, but you could see that wasted potential when she sold peggy on her re-write of her roomate add. think of when joan was giving peggy the pitch, she was kind of coaching her on how to be that peggy she wants to be.

rose i think one of the themes that seems to be running thru the show is self re-invention. think about it, more than just don draper-- a symbol of reinvention being a trap, most of the characters are in a state of "becoming." between who they are, and who they want to be, or thought they wanted to be. roger, sal, peggy, joan or even betty.

with joan, it seems like her marriage was a reaction to a couple of disappointments. remember, roger dropped her after their dating, and started seeing the new girl, and got a divorce from his wife, then they took her off that job reading soap opera scripts. i think she just met the doctor, and thought, here's my escape hatch. remember how for the longest time he was almost a rumor on the show, talked about, but never seen. as if he wasn't as important as the idea of him was.

i think peggy wants to be an equal in business, because she knows she's better than those guys, but she also sees the success of joan and wants that too. she's been traveling down that second road of wanting to "loosen up" for a while. remember the dance with pete where she was trying to be fun and he shot her down?

i love that don, who is supposed to be one of the kind of old-guard big wigs is kind of pushing the minorities (woman/gays) forward.

my theory about the rape and some of the emotional abuse -- is just that people aren't used to seeing it in that way. so they don't know how to process it.

i'm curious about what everyone thought about the scene with sal and his wife...
designermedusa
Last nights episode was really good. Spoiler code not working, don't read below if you haven't seen the episode yet.








Loved the interaction between Joan and Peggy. The actress that plays Sally is so good at showing emotion for being a child. I was saddened by the scene with Sal and his wife. After he acted out the commercial for her, it seemed as if she finally knew he was gay, and perhaps before had only suspected it. I'm not sure if I read it wrong, but that's how I understood it. I was wondering if they would ever address the issue of Sal not being interested in sex with his wife, and I'm glad they did. You feel for both of them because they are trapped, atleast for the time being.
thepointybird
QUOTE(roseviolet @ Sep 7 2009, 01:02 AM) *

Looking forward to seeing more focus on Sal tonight!

Oh my goodness, poor Kitty! Just that look of realisation that came over her face when Sal was re-enacting the ad - I could have cried for her! And he was so oblivious!
ketto
I saw someone make an interesting comment that people forget that Joan, while being a totally awesome woman, also completely plays by the rules. When she got the TV job and they took it away she just went with it. When she met a young doctor she figured she'd better marry him. She obviously has a sexual past but most of the time she's very by the book with a bit of her own style. I agree that she was coaching Peggy too, I think she misses her old life.

As for Sal and Kitty...looked like a light bulb went off in Kitty's head.

I really like the actress who plays Sally. I thought her scene at the end was really emotional and well acted.

thepointybird
Yeah, the girl who plays Sally is really coming into her own, I reckon Sally will be featuring in a few story-lines this season. She's quite a cool little character. I liked the scene when Grandpa Gene was telling her how her grandma used to work with the engineer. I think they're building her up to be a bit of a rebel. Does anyone know how old Sally is supposed to be in this season?

Also, did anyone else catch that Peggy actually looked sort of smug at the end of the meeting with the Patio people? It was almost like you could see her thinking "I told them this wasn't the way to go, and I was right!" I think she'll somehow save the account....
roseviolet
PointyBird, I definitely noticed that look on Peggy's face! Priceless!

They just had to get my blood pressure up over Grandpa a few more times, didn't they. wink.gif First he let Sally DRIVE, fercrissake, and then the scene with Bobby and that knife. Good god, that man made me nervous. However, the moment with Bobby and the fan right before the commercial break gave me the biggest laugh of the night! That was so fucked up. Love it.

That girl who plays Sally ... wow. I wonder what she had to do to work herself up for that final scene. So heartbreaking.

Ketto, I think you're right about Joan. It breaks my heart to say it, but she's been playing by The Rules. Even with Roger I think she was playing hard to get. I'm still not sure whether she was happy keeping it light between them or if she secretly wishes he would have left his wife for her.


QUOTE(girltrouble @ Sep 7 2009, 01:51 AM) *
my theory about the rape and some of the emotional abuse -- is just that people aren't used to seeing it in that way. so they don't know how to process it.


GT, you are dead on. In the entertainment world, every abusive boyfriend/husband is the sort who beats up the woman viciously or violently forces sex on his partner while hurling insults at her the entire time. I think Mad Men portray something far more realistic. It's something that is rarely seen on television & movies.

Poor Kitty. I'm sure she's noticed Sal's more effeminate side before, but not in such an obvious, overt way. I think she was disturbed by it, but I bet she'll still do her best to sweep away her concerns. After all, he was just trying to share his work with her. And the person in the commercial is a woman who's trying to be extra flirty, so of course that's how he has to behave if he's acting it out for her. Right? So it doesn't really mean anything, right? Right?!?
Again. Poor Kitty.
candycane_girl
I just watched last night's episode. There were sooooo many good things. I can't say enough how much I love Peggy and I just wanted to give her a hug when the other workers prank called her. And she definitely had a smug look on her face after the Patio meeting because she knew it wasn't the right direction for them to go in. However, after Roger said that the ad wasn't right because it wasn't Ann Margret I'm wondering if in the next episodes they'll try to get the real Ann Margret and go off on a celebrity endorsement tangent.

That scene with Sal was amaaaaazing. The look on Kitty's face was priceless and I couldn't get over how overt Sal was being even if he was just trying to explain the ad.

GT, I agree with what you said about Joan's rape scene. People are used to seeing rape being portrayed as a woman kicking and screaming and being attacked by a stranger. Totally different from what Mad Men portrayed (which I suspect is the case more often than not).

Also, was the grandpa putting salt on chocolate ice cream?! I liked how they alluded to the fact that something was wrong by him saying that he smelled oranges.
thepointybird
What does everyone reckon to Peggy's new roommate? Seems like there could be some fun storylines coming up there!
lananans
I think that Peggy and her roommate are not going to get a long. Or that Peggy will try to get along with her, and keep up with her lifestyle?? Who knows..

As for the Joan rape scene.. I agree... we're not used to seeing it portrayed like that on television, and it has really made us think... another reason why this is just an excellent tv show.

kittenb
Joan really is a rules kind of girl, in some suprising ways.

I just got time to watch last week's episode. I almost cried for Kitty, Sal's wife. He was so excited to show her his act and it just devistated her. It made me sad, too, because it is clear he loves her as friend and family but can't be a full partner to her. I want more for both of them.
candycane_girl
What did everyone think of Betty's labour? I had forgotten the way things were done back then, with the husband just left to wait in a room. I cannot imagine having a baby and not having the father there for support. But then she didn't really need it because they just drugged her up like crazy anyway. I couldn't get over the whole situation but according to the girls at Jezebel the "twilight sleep" way of childbirth was pretty common. My mom was born in 1951. I'm curious to know what my grandmother's experience of giving birth was.
thepointybird
QUOTE(kittenb @ Sep 13 2009, 11:58 PM) *
I almost cried for Kitty, Sal's wife. He was so excited to show her his act and it just devistated her. It made me sad, too, because it is clear he loves her as friend and family but can't be a full partner to her.


And what's even more devastating about that is that it must have been a pretty common occurrence in those days, given how hush-hush homosexuality was. I'm interested to see how they develop this story line, and I really hope they do go with it. Maybe Kitty will confront him and leave? Or perhaps they'll come to an arrangement where she can have lovers in order to save face? There are so many different ways it could go.

Lananas, I definitely got the impression that they were trying to set up Peggy's new roommate as kind of a party-girl, I'm thinking we may see Peggy get a bit too caught up in all that and her work suffering as a result?
lilacwine13
*delurks*

Betty's childbirth scenes scared the shit out of me. From what I've read elsewhere, twilight sleep just made you forget about what happened and didn't do anything to dull the pain. I knew things were done differently, but I didn't realize how different they were.

I now want to ask my mom and aunts about it.

I can't see Peggy keeping up with her roommate for long without cracking, those two are exact opposites.

roseviolet
I certainly thought Betty's labour was trippy, but I wouldn't say it frightened me any more than ordinary childbirth. I can see how a lot of people might prefer the Twilight Sleep option.

I noticed that there were a few unique shots in the most recent episode. I'm thinking specifically of Don on the couch in his office. It's was definitely a god's-POV shot. I don't think I've seen them do a something as overtly dramatic as that before.
lananans
Pointy and lilac - maybe her work will suffer and she'll crack a little as a result of the new party girl roommate??

I found Betty's labour really trippy too - but it hit a chord because my Granny always talks about how when she was in childbirth they just took her away and gave her drugs and she felt like she was in a haze. What really hit me was how alone Betty was, she had absolutely nobody with her, other than some nurses that she just met. Her doctor wasn't even there.

My Granny really identifies with Betty, and is obsessed with the show. She was a put together blonde, party girl who married at 24 and had babies. I almost feel like by watching the show I understand her a little bit more.

The part I just LOVED in the last episode was where Duck called Peggy and Pete to lunch and totally called them out on there being something going on between them. The one person who noticed, I love it.
roseviolet
Yes! The return of Duck! It was nice to see what happened to him. The turtleneck gave me a giggle. I'm impressed by his observation, even if I think he's completely wrong about Pete's motivation. As much as he may have wanted Peggy back then, I don't think he was scheming to help her career ... even on an unconscious level.
candycane_girl
What hit me about the twilight sleep thing is that after reading up on it, it didn't do anything to help with pain it just made women forget the whole experience. When I watch modern birthing shows, I can't imagine waking up and not remembering the actual birth of my baby.
lananans
cc - I can't imagine that either. It is such an important moment, and to just miss the entire thing would be awful.. kind of like drinking too much and waking up and not knowing what happened? Except you then have a baby...

And rose, I agree. Pete could really care less about Peggy's career. I think on some level that's why he's attracted to her, but he definitely doesn't want to help her.
roseviolet
As soon as I saw that lawnmower, my palms began to sweat. You just knew that nothing good could come of it.
girltrouble
rose, you slay me. that is the funniest fucking quote. wub.gif
roseviolet
Thanks, GT! wub.gif But come on. I can't be alone here.

I gotta admit that I got a good laugh from the scene when the guys were talking in an office while blood was cleaned off the window in the background. So gruesome & hysterically funny at the same time!

How do you think they'll get Joan back on the show? We know they'll have to do a bit of reshuffling at Sterling Cooper now. Plus someone will need to replace Lois. Do you think Joan will offer her services during this difficult time for the company? Will she admit to someone that she still needs to work? Such an admission would be a serious blow to her pride, so it's hard for me to imagine. However, if they can play it off as if Sterling Cooper NEEDS her and she has found it in her heart to take pity on them, then I can see her returning sooner rather than later.

Whatever the case, she better come back. Quickly.
thepointybird
Arrrggghhhhhhhhh!!!!! My normal online place for watching Mad Men episodes has ceased to work today, and I can't find it anywhere else! Well actually, I can find it in about a billion places but they're all requiring that I fill in some endless survey before they'll show the video, and even when I complete the survey the video is still not working. Help me! I'm in the UK, I've seen up to episode 5 of season 3 and I can't possibly wait until they show it on UK tv next spring. Eeeeeek!
candycane_girl
pointybird, try surfthechannel.com. It has a lot of links to megavideo.

I seriously cannot believe how this episode went! I totally foresaw the deal with Joan's husband not getting the residency. The look on her face seemed to be her realizing that she married a loser. Also, is it just me or were they trying to say something by showing how smart she was when cleaning up the, er lawnmower accident. Also, unlike RV, the accident totally took me by surprise! I felt like one minute I was lolling at Kinsey playing guitar in his office and the next thing I know, a man loses his foot! I actually gasped and covered my mouth. Lordy, what an episode!
ketto
I knew something bad was going to happen when the mower came out, but that guy losing his foot, I did not see coming. It will be interesting to see how the plan for the office will change. I feel so bad for both Sally and Betty. I feel like Betty doesn't really know what she's doing so she tries to do what is right without finding out what's actually wrong with Sally. "Here have a doll, mommy still loves you." I really like the dynamic between Sally and Don right now.
kittenb
I woke up about 4AM this morning for no actual reason dry.gif so I finally got a chance to watch the episode. I thought, maybe the ditzy secretary would knock a British exec over. It never occured to me that someone might get dismembered! I had a whole story in my head about how Joan and the new hot British guy had an affair that lead her to get out of her marraige. Guess that won't be happening soon.

Sometimes watching this show makes me realize how far we actually have come as a society (and with medical science.) The old Brits were talking about the young guy like he was dead. "The Doctor says he'll never play golf again (sad head shake." What the hell?
roseviolet
What did y'all think of last night's episode?

I've heard people use the term "fuck a duck" in exasperation before, but I never thought Peggy might take it literally. tongue.gif That whole scene gave me the creeps. I'd rather Peggy fuck just about anyone instead of Duck.

Okay, maybe not Cooper. But you know what I mean.

Speaking of Cooper, I can't believe he pulled the blackmail card on Don. Seemed like a pretty extreme act of desperation. Same for Sterling & his phone call to Betty. That was low.
ketto
Yeah, Duck has a weird creepy vibe.

Interesting how Roger and Don's friendship has completely melted away this season. I also thought it was interesting that the only scene this episode where Don was behind his desk - First Conrad Hilton was sitting behind his desk, then at the end of the episode Cooper was, both times telling Don they essentially have the power in their relationships - as the only scene he was really in power at the office, and he took it completely out on Peggy, someone he could dominate at that moment. Scenes like that remind me of why Don can be so slimy.

I'm so obsessed with the weekly feministing discussion of this show. I keep going to check if they've posted it yet!
thepointybird
Yeah, I found it interesting when Don was signing the contract that he said he wanted nothing more to do with Roger. How's that going to work? Should be interesting to see how that all plays out. The Peggy and Duck thing was a total shock too, can't wait to see if she'll keep seeing him and try to use their relationship to professional advantage if or when she goes to Grey. I keep remembering that scene in Season 2 when Bobbie Barratt told her that being a woman was a powerful business when done correctly, and her career seems to be stalling at SC when she's tried to angle for promotions or projects simply by asking for them (in much the same way that the men do).
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