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chachaheels
No bloody violence? Just how expected was that lawnmower-induced surgery we all had to witness, artful blood splatter and all?

It's there, it's just different.

I don't think Betty leaving has to do with bravery, it has to do with common sense. A divorced woman with 3 children would practically never be hired by anyone; and if she were to be hired, it would not be a job that would pay (we all saw that she's really too old to be relying on a modeling career in a previous episode). Betty would also lose her home and all her friends. The only way she could realistically contemplate leaving Don would be to leave for another man who was willing and able to marry her and support her children. And that is why Francis has to tell her he is asking him to marry her--to convey that he's serious about wanting to be with her, that he's not just going to have a "fling". Looks crazy from here, but in the historical context, unless a woman like Betty had her own source of independent wealth and she could prove beyond a doubt that her husband had been unfaithful (no such thing as no-fault divorce at that time), divorce would have been very much out of the question for Betty. She'd be as reviled as her divorced neighbour is.
missladyj
When Joan's husband told her he joined the army, I was hoping that he gets shipped off and dies. Is that terrible of me ? I thought it though. Then she'd be free of him. I also liked that after she hit him, he bought her flowers and apologized. PLus it was what he said to her before about wanting something and not getting it. Of course she knows what that is like she is super smart and is in a world where that is not valued.

I'm sad that this episode is the last of the season.

I loved Jane's red outfit with the leopard print cuffs and hat.
nickclick
oh yeah the lawnmower scene was classic. we were just talking about that over dinner last nite (red sauce and red wine and everything). can't wait to see what happens tonite!
auralpoison
Wow. That's all I can say. Bonus on using one of my favorite Roy Orbison songs at the end.
nickclick
serious wow. no foreplay - news of the sale and Betty's being for reals about divorce hit immediately. i didn't think it possible but Peggy earns new respect. i thought FOR SURE they'd be calling Sal. maybe next year. i heard 10 months 'til the next season.... really?
eyelet
10 months. I have a feeling I'll be re-watching these episodes to get my fix. Though this was a bit of a schizophrenic season, it wasn't timid.

So Don is sad but not sad because at the same time his marriage is crumbling, he's also getting the chance to work for the kind of agency he always pictured himself working for.

I find myself wondering...

Will Betty get a bait and switch with this new guy and find out he's really an ogre?

Will Joan finally get a chance for a more powerful position?

Will any of the crew that they left behind be joining them at the new agency?

Will Sally be so pissed off at her emotionally stunted parents that she becomes part of the late 60's counter culture and then spends her whole adulthood in therapy?
ketto
I really enjoyed last nights episode, especially the scenes between Peggy and Don and Betty and Don. I liked that Betty really stood up for herself but I don't think it's smart for her to get involved with Henry. Too bad. The scene with the kids made me tear up a bit. Peggy was so awesome, I loved the way she turned Don down and I loved the way he begged her back. I really had no idea where this season was going but I like the turn it took.

I also thought it was hilarious how Kinsey was pissed at the end that Don took Peggy and not him.
nickclick
QUOTE(ketto @ Nov 9 2009, 09:09 AM) *
I also thought it was hilarious how Kinsey was pissed at the end that Don took Peggy and not him.

yes! but i'll kinda miss that dynamic in the next season if they don't bring him over.

and eyelet, i was thinking that about Sally too.... well, more that when Mad Men ends, there should be a sequel starring Sally as a young adult.
ketto
Me too, I like his character. He's not a main one but he's pretty funny. I'll be surprised if they don't keep him. Ken Cosgrove seemed to be in less and less of this seasons episodes and he's got a good position now so I doubt he'll come, but I Kinsey was a regular player.

I bet Sally will be a very interesting person when she's a little older. She's about the same age as my mom was at that time.
roseviolet
I loved every single moment with Peggy last night! Especially when Roger asked her to get him a cup of coffee and she said no. So simple and brilliant. I also love the way she and Don talk. It was good to she her stand up to him and then great to see the way he was able to be so open with her. I truly think Don trusts Peggy more than any other person on the planet.

And I think Don loves Sally more than anyone else. Last night he sat in the guest room and watched her sleeping in his bed, knowing the trauma they were about to unleash on her. Of course, he thought back to the trauma he experienced at the same age. Please tell me I wasn't the only one who saw that coming from a mile away. I kept cringing!

I'm worried about Betty. She barely knows anything about that other man. I feel like the only reason why she is getting divorced is because that other guy is willing to take care of her and the kids. I definitely don't think she loves him. It's all frying-pan-into-the-fire bullshit as far as I'm concerned.

As much as I dislike Pete as a person, they were absolutely right about his savvy and vision. It was smart of them to go with him over Cosgrove. I'll be sad to see him go, though. I also hope they find a way to bring Kinsey and Sal back.

Lastly, soooooo glad to see Joan. I think the audience was just as relived to see her as the characters on the screen.
nickclick
QUOTE(roseviolet @ Nov 9 2009, 10:19 AM) *
Lastly, soooooo glad to see Joan. I think the audience was just as relived to see her as the characters on the screen.

as soon as Roger said - I have to make a phone call - i was all - whoo hoo... Joan's back!
kittenb
I don't know that they can bring Sal on-board considering that Lucky Strike will be funding this new venture.

I was actually relievd that Kinsey and his stupid beard were not asked to be a part of the new company. No offense to the actor who does a really good job but that guy bugs the heck out of me. He spends too much time trying to prove to everyone how deep he is.

Sign me up for having Joan in charge!

Peggy was great, I agree. "Beg me? You haven't even asked me!"

Very excited that Lane Pryce will be in the next season. Something about him just makes me happy.

I don't know what to think about Betty and Don. Don has done such horrible things to her and he was awful to her in this episode. How is it she always seems to come out as the villian? Why I am always so willing to feel sorry for Don when I am aggravated by Betty? I think it says something about January Jones, whom I really like. She has the guts to play that charater true to form without begging for audiance sympathy. I like that there has been so much attention focused on her this season, some positive, some not, but I think she deserves the attention.
girltrouble
i think january is a remarkable actress with a very subtle, difficult roll, and she's always pitch perfect. mad men's cast is really one of the best on tv. if you think about all the different dynamics at play and how each person reacts with don, and how real and complex they are... it's just stunning.

rosey, as soon as i saw the horse, i thought, "this can't end well." then i started giggling, because i thought, that's such a rosey thing to think, cos that's what you said about the lawnmower.

and yes, joan, yes! i just love how she is supposed to be the person with the least pull, but EVERYBODY knows she's the anchor, she's the one who knows the nuts and bolts, and every time she flexes those muscles, it's just delicious. i love watching her conduct.

speaking of flexing muscles. i was so rooting for peggy. i love that she just called a spade a spade to don. and that line about him spending his life trying to hire her back... i cried. i did. i'm with rosey, i think that's his real marriage, and it's starting to become one of equals. i look forward to next season's dynamic between the two of them.

as much as i love joan, sal, kinsey and all the other people i admire any show so willing to ship it's characters off, or have them gone altogether. it just makes that world more real to me.
eyelet
Didn't Don go to the hospital when Peggy had the baby? So he knows something profound about her and they have in common keeping a really really big secret and leaving part of themselves behind. I think it binds them together. But she isn't going to be kicked around by anyone after everything she has been through.

I think Don couldn't make it work with Betty because he doesn't believe he's worthy of her. So he was always subconsciously trying to screw things up. The only thing I can't like about Betty is how shitty she is to her kids. I can forgive her everything else but that. Still, I hope the new guy doesn't turn out to be a wife-beater or obsessively jealous. She didn't vet him at all before making this leap.

I think somehow Sal will be back. There's just too much potential to work with in that character.
chachaheels
I actually love the character of Betty. When I think of just how terrible a parent she is, I also think of just how terrible almost everyone else with kids on the show proves to be, as Betty's "neighbours" are just as shitty with their kids! They make a reference to Betty's upbringing on the show--she's a "Maine Line" brat, and that defines the kind of class and culture she was raised in; she's doing all the things she was told she was supposed to do. Be the pretty, perfect lady; make sure she didn't grow up fat; make sure she knows her value is all in her looks and poise and all the accessories of her background. It's no accident she's such a good horsewoman, who grew up to look like Grace Kelly, and then modeled internationally before marrying a handsome and gifted alpha male like Don. She was raised to be a "prize", to grow up and marry some scion or an heir; a Kennedy or a Bush (or, fittingly, a Francis). It's all supposed to be about appearances, even the whole wife and mother bit. But she's lost in it, and a big part of the charm about her character is feeling along with her as she figures out how lost she is, how wrong everything she's been told she's supposed to do and be actually feels.

So again, Betty is going to do exactly as she's been raised to believe she should to be with Francis, who should be her "perfect" match...but she's going to hate how that works out too. It's kind of fascinating seeing a female character go through this kind of evolution--love or hate her, she's one of those characters you feel for because what she's going through is universal. Interesting that so many people want to see her get hurt, though! They love to see her be unhappy when she gets whatever it is she thinks she wants.
girltrouble
damn, you, cha, stop making me crush out on you! oh you are terrible! wub.gif
nickclick
cha, i'm crushin' too... as much as i doubted Betty and Don will never reconcile for the sake of keeping her character in the storyline, it will be interesting to see how her marriage may not turn out to be peachy keen with Henry Francis either. as traditional as her upbringing was, you gotta give it up for her going thru with the divorce.
ketto
QUOTE(eyelet @ Nov 9 2009, 04:38 PM) *
Didn't Don go to the hospital when Peggy had the baby? So he knows something profound about her and they have in common keeping a really really big secret and leaving part of themselves behind. I think it binds them together. But she isn't going to be kicked around by anyone after everything she has been through.


Although Don DID go to the hospital after Peggy had the baby, it was when she was in her "breakdown" phase, after she already gave birth. I've been under the impression that Don didn't know she had a baby, but knew something big had happened. I remember being a bit confused when I first saw the episode but getting the feeling he had no idea she'd given birth. What do other people think?

However, even though he doesn't know that detail, I still feel that he does know something profound about her and they have that in common. They both know the other has secrets, they just don't know what those secrets are.
chachaheels
QUOTE
However, even though he doesn't know that detail, I still feel that he does know something profound about her and they have that in common. They both know the other has secrets, they just don't know what those secrets are.


It's so ambiguous in the show, isn't it? I think the only people who know what really happened to Peggy are the doctor, the nuns, and Peggy and her immediate family--and Don comes in to visit "after" the salient points of the story are all in the past (though a nervous breakdown/psychiatric ward stint would also be a secret you wouldn't want anyone to know about). I also have a feeling he would not have been so sympathetic to Peggy if he knew she'd had a child and given it away because it's a bit too close to his own baggage. It's so obvious Peggy is his parallel and she's kind of his nemesis, too. He has a kind of subtle but firm awareness of that, and so does she. I always see Don's actions towards Peggy as a means of reconciling things with his own mother's actions, even though she's a pivotal but ghostly figure in his mind. It's this kind of back-and-forth struggle he has with her and what she seems to remind him of that actually gives Peggy the ability to learn about, claim, and fully value her own skill. And that's why she can stand up so firmly against Don and demand that he see her value, too.

I don't think they have to "know" each other's secret...but they have to know they're twins where secrets are concerned, and the relationship between these two is so central to the whole story. It's easier, right now, to see how Peggy is key to Don's integrating his secret past with his current life; I'm looking forward to seeing just what kind of influence Don has on Peggy's character development now that he's succeeded in wooing bringing her along in Sterling Cooper Draper and Pryce.

I also just found out that the character who plays Pryce's father was Richard Harris. The Richard Harris. Of MacArthur Park fame.
nickclick
this is cool - Dead presidents, divorce, and new digs: Mad Men creator Matthew Weiner talked exclusively to The Daily Beast about Sunday’s game-changing season finale.
auralpoison
So nobody has anything to say about the new season? Nuffink?
nickclick
oh i couldn't find this thread yesterday! thanks ap! what did you think? my few thoughts -

Peggy kicks even more ass. she's totally expecting respect as an equal, even with Don.

the Betty/Henry thing ain't gonna last. he has to recreate their first kiss in the car to get it up.

Don isn't getting as much tail now that he's not married and is boyfriend potential. and ew to the prostitute slapping scene.

the new office is fab!

i miss Sal.
auralpoison
I miss Sal, too, even if he grossed me out last season. Sal was so dapper, debonair & handsome, his skeevy little tryst with that bellhop was just plain wrong. It wasn't desperate, forbidden, honry, sexy hooking up: it looked like Sal was eating the guy's face. Now whenever I see Brian Batt all I can think is, "Bad kisser. Horrible, awful, lamprey, face-sucking BAD KISSER!"

And where the fuck is Paul Kinsey? I know a lot of people had a love/hate thing with Pete, but mine was with Paul. He tried to play it off that he was sooooo bohemian & above it all with his grass, his guitar, & his black girlfriend, but he was just as much of an obnoxious suit as the rest of the Sterling Cooper boys.

Nary a glimpse of Cosgrove, either, that smug prick. But his name is still in the titles . . .

Peggy rocks. Her snark at Don about leaving the PR right where he left it (At Ad-Age!) was awesome. And I am so glad she's gotten a new haircut, new clothes, & has her little office boy in Joey. (I don't know how many people actually got the "John/Marsha" reference, but I did!) And who the hell did that Mark dude think he was saying he was her fiancé? "It just came out," my ass!

Betty/Henry is a really bad idea. Why the hell are they still living in the Draper's house & why is Don still paying for it? Betty is crazy & playing games & both Don & Henry know it. It's super uncool that she's using the kids as an excuse & making them suffer as well. Those kids are scared out of their minds at their loony mom! And Henry's mother talking about getting it for free & ". . . can you stand living in another man's dirt?" OH, SNAP!

And Don. Don is so f'ed up it's unbelievable. His code has always been shaky, now it's just buckwild. I mean, I avoided my family this past Thanksgiving, but I didn't hire a pro to smack me around. And I agree with Peggy that he was being spiteful when he told her he "just doesn't want a girl in the room" when he talked to the people from Jantzen. I think Peggy's wholesome-looking presence might have helped carry off the faintly naughty wit that Don was trying to sell them on.

I loved the last bit about, "I could die of boredom or holster up my guns . . ." & then busting into "Tobacco Road". Ah, the times they are a changin'!
girltrouble
loved the new ep.

aural, you slay me: "i avoided my family..." laugh.gif
to me that was a very revealing scene. when he was married, he cheated like there was no tomorrow. now that he's single, he can't/doesn't want a tryst because he hasn't got that primary relationship. that's what the slapping was about, his guilt, that woman was a stand in for betty. he yearns for that sort of antagonism.


as for cosgrove and kinsey, didn't they get left behind? i remember there were a couple of people who discovered the old office had been ransacked, and they had been left out of the fun/new company.

and the john/marsha thing killed me. i loved it. too funny. but it was a good episode, it started with, "who is don draper" and ended with him in a new interview, being capitol "D" don, the story teller.
stargazer
My mother was talking to me about being surprised Don was into being slapped. I had to explain to my mother that the high number of CEOS/businessmen are purveyors of BDSM services explaining liking the role reversal of not being in control. THAT was an interesting conversation. biggrin.gif

I like Don Draper. I like my Don Draper arrogant which makes him hotter to me. At the same time, I love when Peggy puts him in his place. It is a great banter. I think the show is at its best when a scene involves their interaction.

I think what struck me about this episode is the emphasis on manipulation of information to sell "something," whether it is a 2 piece bathing suit, bikini, an ad company, or a man (Don Draper). Don's whole life was about selling himself as something he is not...so why should things stop now. At least that is my take.

It will be interesting to see where things go this season. I really dislike Betty Draper. I know her character is a by product of the times, but, I just cannot stand her immaturity.
nickclick
huh? anyway,

Peggy's bf is soooo not for her. he's lame and typical. did she sleep with him because
a. she actually listened to Freddy's advice and realized she DIDN'T care to snag him as a husband?
b. she DIDN'T want to be old-fashioned?
c. she just didn't want to be alone on new year's?

speaking of being lame, typical and lonely, really Don? you're dipping into the secretary pool now? she was the only one who didn't shove off his flirtations. i was sad she didn't. don't think that will be happening again though.

and creepy kid Glen is back!

period_monster
Like Mad Men, I was on hiatus.

But, seriously, Glen is back? What is with the Draper women and that creepy little boy?

stargazer
Comments about Mad Men from its creator

nickclick, I think it is all of the above. Unfortunately, I think the secretary will be around for another epi from what the preview showed us. My mother was saying Don would fire her, but, he kept her on.

I think I was struck by how much Don needs someone to take care of him by this episode. The nurse neighbor, his secretary...clearly, he is immature emotionally which is reflected in his relationships. He is awkward in expressing himself and cannot relate to women unless sex is involved.

What about Roger and Joan! My favorite part of the episode.
sybarite
I think more Joan full stop... I'm still worried about her marriage, especially following her husband's absence from the Christmas party. I know doctors routinely work unsocial hours, but I still took it as a bad sign.

I think Don is falling apart a little, certainly in relation to women and sex. I feel like Don-still-married-to-Betty would never have done something as sloppy as shagging his secretary (who dealt with the situation with more dignity than he did btw.) It will be interesting to see what happens with the cute nurse next door--I could see her sucked into a kind of caregiver-with-benefits role, except she seems too feisty for that.

As crazy and fucked up as Betty and Don were, they got each other (albeit in dysfunctional ways.) It's clear Henry doesn't give a shit about the kids; he's just there to lick Betty's boots and she's happy to let him.

SG, I agree the season so far is foregrounding manipulation (e.g. nascent PR stunts).

I have to say I still find myself watching all the characters from a critical distance; they all leave me fairly cold. The exception was Joan, particularly around the time she made the decision to get married, which was heartbreaking. I'm not even that invested in Peggy; her choices seem increasingly tactical, which is interesting, but her character just doesn't grab me.

Finally, does anyone else find that the opening 'previously on Mad Men' sequences (with that awful saccharine music) really jar with the overall tone of the show? They always feel like something tacked on by AMC.
nickclick
Joan, Joan, Joan..... stop trying to squeeze a 'perfect' marriage out of this. Maybe she'll get the copy of 1963's The Feminine Mystique that I'd been hoping Betty would stumble across.

I was glad to see Don compassionate about a woman this episode after last week, even if it's someone he wouldn't consider as a sexual partner.

and ew, Lane. Ew.
stargazer
You know, I feel like Joan as well as all of the other characters have bought into this illusion of what happiness looks like. They are so willing to live their dreams that they ignore their own emotional needs.

Good synopsis of last night's epi
sybarite
Nice epi overview. I especially agree with this: 'Last night's episode was all about the characters' true identities peeking out through the personae which they have created. It was like the clouds parted and the sunlight shone through, but the light was too intense, and the clouds shuddered back quickly to keep everyone from going blind.'

Consequently I enjoyed this one more than usual. I thought Don and Lane's evening together was awesome, because unexpected, and left everyone's dignity intact. Poor Joan though... I agree she seems to be clinging to the trappings of a 'good marriage' rather than looking at whether or not they're actually suited to each other.
auralpoison
Pete Campbell is the epitome of slim, slick-haired, sharkskin-suited weaselly awesomeness.
nickclick
is he REALLY happy about the new baby?
ketto
I think he is. He seemed genuinly happy but I think he was surprised that he was, given that he knows he alreayd has a son. It made me so sad at the end when him and Peggy just looked at each other. I like Pete more this season, he seems like he's grown up a bit. His move with his FIL was pretty smarmy, however, it was also really fucking smart.
auralpoison
QUOTE(ketto @ Aug 18 2010, 01:54 PM) *
His move with his FIL was pretty smarmy, however, it was also really fucking smart.

I think that may just be the difference in Pete. He's grown from being merely smarmy & clever to actually being smart.
coffeebean
Hi have to agree with Ketto. I think that Pete is surprised to find that he is so pleased about Trudy's pregnancy.

I also thought that the final scene with Pete and Peggy was sad - but did a lovely job of setting up the dichotomy between Pete and the 'old boys club' and Peggy and her choice to join the more 'contemporary hipster crowd.' This should make things more interesting in the office when it comes to Peggy's story line (although it has already been good). Perhaps she will be trying to push the advertising boundaries even more, only to find that he ideas are rejected by her coworkers.

I have to admit that I miss the family story element that included Betty and the children. I am still enjoying the show but wish that there was more story line with them. I'm a family dynamics junkie smile.gif

nickclick
QUOTE(coffeebean @ Aug 18 2010, 05:07 PM) *
I have to admit that I miss the family story element that included Betty and the children. I am still enjoying the show but wish that there was more story line with them. I'm a family dynamics junkie smile.gif

i agree! and from next week's previews, looks like Betty and Henry will be having some drama of their own.....
stargazer
So...how have we not talked about last week epi?!? I think someone asked for family dynamics in here. It was all over the place in this episode.

I think Sally is a representation of the dysfunction in the Drapper family. That poor child is really being geared towards acting out behavior.

Hooray for Pete for being assertive with Roger! I loved that he called Roger out on his behavior. It looks like Pete is becoming more comfortable with the game of the advertising business.

Does anyone think something will happen with Don and the psychologist? I remember reading online (I think Gawker) about how Anna has been the only woman in Don's life he has been able to tell the truth about his life. I was surprised how much he told the psychologist about his family life.

nickclick
well, another week when the psychologist turns Don down, and i was glad. he's becoming even more of a desperate drunken loser.

i loved the Roger/Don flashback! and i loved that Joan was there, looking suuuuper hot.

and speaking of Roger and Joan, best line..... "you've crossed the border from lubricated to morose". all the while he's thinking back to when his work was somewhat important.
auralpoison
The handholding. WTF was that about?

My favorite line: "I've read your pamphlets, and I'm not interested in the Temperance Movement." Rizzo is a total prick, but that was a great line.

Goodness, Danny Strong is pocket-sized. I knew the guy was short, but him standing next to Jon Hamm at the end there was funny!
sybarite
You know, one of my reservations about MM (which is otherwise often amazing) is that I usually feel distanced from its characters. This episode brought home lurking emotional/power stuff dating from... seasons ago. Awesome.
nickclick
poor Joan. she feels like she's losing control. she's being treated at home the same way she is at work. but don't sass my Peggy! oh and i knew Don would feel that way about the drawing but i didn't expect him to actually say - boys will be boys. ick.
kittenb
I keep thinking that I am done thinking about this week's episode but it won't let me go. When idiot freelancer boy shot off his mommy-hating mouth to Joan I was gut-punched. I looked at The Geek and said, "I barely thought much about him before now but now I just want him to die!"
As far as the conflict between Joan and Peggy, it can't be denied that Joan is a powerful woman. However she is stuck in such a powerless place and she plays by the rules (be sexy, get what you want.) Peggy, by firing the idiot, actually broke the rules. While she might not consider herself a feminist, by becoming a "humorless bitch" she showed power. It will only take about 40 years (& counting) before her actions are respected. I am not hating on Joan but it saddens me to see how stuck she is both in the workplace and at home.
sybarite
By the logic of their workplace, Joan initially asserted her control over the situation (to me she didn't go far enough but it was her call and her solution). Then Peggy effectively relegated Joan to 'just a secretary' by firing Freelancing Asshole, albeit for the right reasons. The intersection/ conflict was between both gender and professional status--for me it problematically marked Joan as 'just a secretary' in that hierarchy which negates the fundamental work she did/does.
stargazer
QUOTE(kittenb @ Sep 15 2010, 03:05 AM) *
As far as the conflict between Joan and Peggy, it can't be denied that Joan is a powerful woman. However she is stuck in such a powerless place and she plays by the rules (be sexy, get what you want.) Peggy, by firing the idiot, actually broke the rules.


I so agree. Joan is outdated in her approach to using her power in the workplace. The relationship between Peggy and Joan is very similar to the themes being discussed during this season, the new and innovated vs. dated and out of touch. I do not think Joan realized that she played into using her sex as a power dynamic by harping to Peggy that she could've gotten the same response by going to lunch with a higher up. I was *so* not impressed with Joan. I felt like she disregarded Peggy's power with that move. At the same time, I feel like Peggy is experiencing the isolation that comes with taking up one's power as a woman in the workplace, you are not one of the boys, but you are also not one of the girls.

Go Peggy! I'm so lovin' her this season.

Btw, Gawker's Brian Moylan does excellent write ups of Mad Men shows. There was a great discussion about the Joan and Peggy relationship in the comments section.
nickclick
another great episode featuring the difference in Joan and Peggy and how they view their vulnerability as women and their relationships to men, as well as Dr. Faye's and even Sally's.

note to Matthew Weiner and AMC: please please PLEASE produce a spinoff starring Sally as a young woman knee deep in the 2nd wave!
auralpoison
Is it just me or do we think that little Sally Draper is eventually going to run off to California & join the Manson Family?
stargazer
QUOTE(auralpoison @ Sep 20 2010, 08:38 AM) *
Is it just me or do we think that little Sally Draper is eventually going to run off to California & join the Manson Family?


Dude. I think she will. blink.gif

Um, and was the last scene an attempt to tell us that Peggy was taking the "straight" road? mellow.gif
kittenb
Sally was breaking my heart in this episode. She has such an idealized image of her father & all she seems to understand is that he left & everything sucks now.

I was also suprised by the Roger/Joan situation. I guess I'm not that suprised that they hooked up but to have done so under a staircase just seemed odd & raw, very unlike they way that they were previously. It is clear that no one ever got to Roger the way that Joan did. Now, does anyone else suspect that Joan might be pregnant in the next episode? She is off birth control as she was trying to concieve w/her husband and the end of next week's trailer (after seeing Roger say, "This can't be happening!") was Joan sitting alone on a bus. I wrote that in white as I couldn't get the spoiler box to work.
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