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lananans
me too. she is smokin' hot. i wish i looked like her.
girltrouble
i was wondering how the title maidenform related to last night's episode, and in watching it again this morning, i realised, it's all about the ways that men restrain women-- both literally (don draper tying up bobbie), and figuratively-- (when he tells his wife her bikini looks desperate) as well as confining women to jackie or marilynn. i think it also interesting how the men's opinion of the women changes when they discover they have children...

interesting episode... i have a feeling next week bobbie will get comeuppance, which i dread. i still think she's one of the most interesting charecters on the show




ETA:me too, lan, me too.
roseviolet
Just finished watching this week's episode.

Interesting theory on the title, GT. I hadn't realized that this episode was called "Maidenform".

Looks like Peggy decided to take Bobbie and Joan's advice. Very very interesting.
erinjane
I have been lurking a little because I've been waiting to see if any channels would do a season 1 marathon but no luck. I've been watching the last 5 or 6 episodes and I love the show so far.

Did anyone else notice how good they are at showing curvier women? I definitely noticed the women modeling the bikini's and the women at the strip club were all curvier. Not to mention the redhead. tongue.gif I'm getting others hooked on it now too. I can't watch regular prime time TV anymore. I can feel myself getting stupider when I do.
moxiegirl
erin-if your cable company has "on demand", the entire first season is there.
erinjane
I think they do but I think the price is a little high. My brother just told me he's downloading them so I'll get him to put them on dvd for me in a few days.
missladyj
this just in

I wanna do Don Draper

that is all
vixen_within
erinjane, i've been dying to see this show, but i don't even have a teevee. where is your brother downloading them from? (or if it's sensitive info please pm me - i must know!)
erinjane
He belongs to an invite only site but I'll ask him which one. I'm not sure if that's where he was getting these particular ones. I'll let you know soonly. smile.gif
thirtiesgirl
I am so mad (no pun intended). I was watching the Mad Men marathon last night, but missed the last 2 episodes because I was on the phone with my guy. Not that I don't enjoy talking with him, but I really wanted to see those episodes! I missed the second to last because I managed to fall asleep last week, so I was looking forward to catching it during the marathon...but I was in the middle of a convo with the guy, so I couldn't get off the phone. And it continued through the new episode. Ach! I guess I'll just have to catch them in re-runs or wait for DVD release. I was trying to watch it with the sound off (I get subtitles when I mute the sound), but I'm so bad at multi-tasking, particularly when I'm talking with someone on the phone, it just wasn't working for me. I did catch that final look that Pete gave Peggy when he saw her at the end of the show, the disgusting hypocrite. He'll cheat on his wife, but he doesn't want Peggy to 'whore it up' by dancing or wearing sexy clothing. He always wants to see her as the innocent looking school girl. F-ing asshole. I've known too many guys with the same kind of disgusting double standard and it just makes me ill.
kari
Peggy looked beautiful in that dress. I think she's definitely starting to play the game. I can't imagine she was too happy to have to sit on that dude's lap though.

Bobbie....who was it that said she & Don wouldn't last b/c she was not discrete enough? Booyah. I think it was pretty funny that he left her tied up that way.

Seems like now that Peggy's gaining some status in the office, Pete's interest in her has been piqued again. She does not seem to feel the same, however.

Poor Betty....I wanted her to rock that bikini.
lananans
I felt so bad for Betty when Don just totally cut her down like that. But I suppose that was the point, to make people realize how sexist it was back then..

Don got a little weird when they got all the men at the club to stand up for their war service... i wonder if something happened to him during the war that they are going to reveal later... hmm..

And I'm glad that Peggy is trying to play with the boys... should be interesting...

And can someone just hit Pete over the head with a heavy object? He is so obnoxious.
erinjane
lananans, have you seen all the episodes already? I don't know how many back it was, but they already revealed something huge that happened to him during the war. I always forget how to do the spoiler writing so someone else can reveal what it was.
roseviolet
All of the info about Don and his military service was revealed in the first season. The really important stuff is revealed in episode 12, "Nixon vs Kennedy". There were 2 flashbacks in that episode that tell about his military service ... and how Don became Don.

Here's how the flashbacks are described on the AMC's episode summary.
The important thing to remember is that the man we know as Don Draper is actually named Dick Whitman. These flashbacks explain how that changed. It all took place during the Korean war. Warning - this gets really gruesome.

Flashback #1: He flashes back to a dirt road in Korea in 1950. A lieutenant watches as Dick jumps out of the back of an army truck and is disappointed to see that only one soldier -- he needed 20 for his mission to build a field hospital. Dick introduces himself. The lieutenant follows suit. “Draper. It’s Lieutenant Don Draper.”

Flashback #2: Don flashes back to Korea. Dick stands in a trench when Lt. Draper storms out of his tent. Thunderous mortar explosions get closer until gunfire erupts and bullets zoom by their heads. As quickly as the attack began, it ends. The two light cigarettes when they notice a stream of liquid at their feet. Lt. Draper thinks Dick wet himself, but when Dick drops his cigarette, they realize it’s gasoline.

They run as a fireball drops them to the dirt. Moments later, Dick wakes up and struggles to lift his body, with his arm and ribs broken. He sees what’s left of Lt. Don -- guts open, intestines strewn on the ground, flesh charred. He finds Don’s dog tags and pulls them from the body. He rips his own off before dangling Don’s around his neck.

The next day at the military hospital, Don receives his Purple Heart and news that he’s going home -- with the task of returning “Dick” to his family. When Don and an army chaplain arrive at the rural Pennsylvania train station where the Whitmans stand waiting, he tells the chaplain he can’t do it. He watches from a distance as the casket is set near 10-year-old Adam. Just then Adam looks toward the train and makes eye contact with Don. As the train pulls away, Adam shouts, “There he is, I see him!”

moxiegirl
I think the general uncomfortablity has to do with his "past," but more specifically, to do with his present. Don is in the midst of a seachange...he sees how his daughter and his lover see him, and doesn't like either. Its the same seachange Peggy is going through, but in reverse.

I can't wait for 1968. What year did the feminine mystique come out?
girltrouble
thanks for that info rose. i missed lots of the 1st season eps.
roseviolet
Thanks GT. That description I posted still seems pretty confusing to me, though. If any of the rest of you had trouble following along, here's the basics:
The man we know as Don Draper is actually named Dick Whitman. While in Korea during the war, he swapped dog tags with a dead lieutenant ... Lt. Don Draper. He has been living as Don Draper ever since. As far as most of the world knows, Dick Whitman is dead.


By the by, I think it's really important to know this about Don - as well as tons of other info revealed in season 1 - but since ErinJane mentioned spoiler bars I thought I should use them. There was some mighty good shit in that first season, lemme tell ya!
candycane_girl
vixenwithin, you can watch the episodes on alluc.org
vixen_within
Grazie!!
gluelita
bobbi reminds me of johnny castle's witchy rich lover from dirty dancing.

this just in

i want to do joan and then steal all her clothes

that is all
girltrouble
me too, glue, me too!





....although her clothes wouldn't fit. dry.gif
gluelita
wouldn't fit me either, but i was glossing due to the fact that the first part of the scenario was unlikely enough as to permit me to write off the logistical complications inherent to the second. wink.gif
lananans
Thanks you guys! I forgot all that info about Don and the war and his current situation... won't spoil it... all makes sense!

I also want to steal all of Joan's clothes and wear them. If only I was about 50 pounds lighter and a couple inches taller....
kittenb
Peeking into the thread and not reading anything...or trying not to...

I am just starting to watch Mad Men. I am NetFlixing the first season. I just watched the episode where they had the "chickens" (women) test market lipstick. It was so infuriating! The men were standing behind the one-way mirror acting like the women were apes in a zoo only less intelligent.

This show just has me enthralled.

ETA: regarding Joan, I have never so badly wanted to touch a woman. I swear she is right up there with Katee Sackhoff in my heart.
thirtiesgirl
Pardon the digression from the discussion of Mad Men, but I just thought I'd mention that the actor who plays Joan on the show was also in a couple episodes of Firefly, Joss Whedon's sci-fi/western hybrid tv show that only lasted 1 season. She was just as gorgeous and more wicked on Firefly, although she didn't have the gorgeous wardrobe (that electric royal blue skirt suit she wore in the last episode ~ hotchacha!).
kittenb
Oh, I remember. Firefly was the first DVD set I ever bought. smile.gif
lananans
I think it's kinda cool how everyone, male or female loves Joan, and is just enthralled by her, myself included. And I find that after watching the show I'm really into 60's fashion. I watched Goodfellas last night with my boyfriend and there were some cool dresses there too. But nobody pulls it off quite like Joan.
gluelita
so...last night's episode. the golden violin that "looked perfect but made no music". what was it that's dysfunctional beneath a lovely veneer? don, his family and marriage, sal and his marriage, even dearest joan. then there are the seeds of desire to cast off what looks perfect...jimmy scratching at the truth, the rothko painting, the coffee jingle/song, even jane perhaps (casting off the idea of propriety and being feisty).

i was really irritated by the litter. was that supposed to be a comment about society in general making no music? pointless destruction beneath the bucolic vision of The American Dream?

it also seemed to carry on last week's theme. the men are just as much divided between Jackie and Marilyn as the women with their double lives.
erinjane
I actually thought the litter thing was very interesting. I think they really do a lot on this show to make sure they're being historically accurate. Like the headlights on the car. Oddly, I was just reading an article on those types of headlights. My brother gets a subscription to NewScientist and they were talking about how people were being killed because they were blinded by headlights and how many lives were saved when they came up with the dimming lights.

Last nights episode made me sad because Betty and Don seemed quite happy until the end.
moxiegirl
but, that's just the point. they "seem" happy. Don't unhappy b/c nothing satisfies him; and betty's unhappy b/c nothing is around to satisfy her. The whole SDS thing... just BE...way 60s, right?

I don't think the littering had anything specific to do with the subtext, but was more of a "background" thing like the smoking. It was just before we all didn't litter.
lananans
I noticed the littering too - I guess back then people just didn't think about it like we do today.. I'm not sure that it had anything to do with subtext either though...

I think Betty needs to have an affair. A torrid steamy affair where she has lots and lots and lots of sex. Wild sex.

And does anyone else think that Jane could start to threaten Joan's supremacy in the office, with Joan getting married, maybe Jane is being set up to become Queen Bee?

Also - they didn't go into detail with the lady who showed up to see Don back when he was a car salesman! I wonder what's going on there...
gluelita
i guess i just think so much of this show is about illustrating how we got to where we are from were we were. the enviornmental movement definitely seemed to have sprung from the realization of how we had casually tossed pollution all over the place and the fallout of that course of action. besides, what would Don do (WWDD) if he had to rep a pesticide company? spin, spin, spin. and what would the consequences be? additionally, aren't they in 1962? looks like that is the year Silent Spring came out. i'm just sayin'.

incidentally, on the topic of how we got where we are, i had a thought about bras inspired by the Maidenform episode and Project Runway. this may or may not be disproven elsewhere, but i thought about how they used to wear those bullet/ish bras and the enhancement it provided to their shape. then the Sally generation comes, and bra-burning and the shift towards comfort for oneself vs. merely display for others starts to surface. however, this changes the silhouette. wouldn't the average woman need to be smaller on the bottom to preserve an "appealing" shape now that the padding/shaping on the top is not balancing her out? so, in a sense, i can see where models moved towards the thinner side of the spectrum. if you watch PR, silhouette counts for a lot. like i said, not sure of the validity of that, but it does seem to fit into a Beauty Myth vision of things that the constraints of garments were traded for the constraints of popular images. (maybe Wolf even made that point, i can't remember).
candycane_girl
I just have to chime in on the litter thing. I noticed that they add a lot of those little details into the show. Like in the first season when the daughter was playing with a plastic bag over her head and instead of getting angry that she could suffocate Betty was just like "that better not be the bag from my dry-cleaning!" Plus wasn't there a pregnant friend who was always smoking? I like that they add this kind of stuff, just little details to remind us of what it was like back then.

Was anyone else a little shocked at the last few seconds of the show?
gluelita
yes, i thought she would say something. is that what surprised you?
thirtiesgirl
I love that she barfed in the shiny new car. Excellent. And I loved the Jane/Joan semi-standoff. Jimmy The Comic finally went up in my estimation a notch or two, as well.
kari
I thought the episode was quite interesting too.

I was very shocked by the last few seconds!

Jimmy stirred up that pot, didn't he? Poor Betty, is she just so blind?

Joan....I thought she was going to strangle Jane. Jane's the only woman in the office who will stand up to Joan. And then she went to Sterling, who appears to be interested in her, which is no doubt making Joan jealous.

I noticed that despite Peggy's stepping out at the club last week, she's back to her usual drab work garb.

I think the story line of Don being asked to sit on that board is very interesting. He's moving up in the world, and is trying to get comfortable with it.

They never did go back to the woman he encountered as a car salesman, did they? Hmmm.

Sal & his wife, it's just sad. Do you think she knows he's gay? I thought she did, from the look on her face when he & Ken were interacting, but now am not so sure. I feel bad for Kitty.

I know, the littering took me by surprise. I think like you all have said, it's just a little something extra to make the show authentic to the time period. I did notice, however, that that scene came right after Don & Betty's being asked by Sally if they were rich. Maybe I'm giving that too much attention & everyone back then littered, but it seemed to me that Don & Betty are becoming more and more upper class, and thus, entitled.

lananans
So maybe there IS more to the littering thing than I thought...

The last few seconds were pretty funny, and shocking. Finally someone standing up to Don...

I feel bad for Kitty - she probably knows deep down, but what is she supposed to do about it really, she probably feels trapped, more than anything. A lot like Betty.

gluelita
re: entitled, now i am thinkin' the gas guzzler of a car goes along with the littering.
candycane_girl
Daaaaamn, tonight's show was kind of epic! I loved seeing Betty finally stand up to Don. I had the last 10 minutes on mute though cause I got a phone call. Can anyone tell me what happened?
anna k
Awwww. Betty saw Jimmy in a TV commercial and he reminded her of the pain, so she called Don and told him not to come home. So he spent the night drinking alone in his office.

Joan rubbed the indentation of her slipdress strap, feeling stressed from not getting the job she wanted at work and living two different lives, as the sexy, collected woman at work and the eager, faithful soon-to-be housewife to her fiance at home.

Peggy soaked in a bath, thinking about the priest's words about attending Communion, while he sat in his room and played a Peter, Paul, and Mary song which closed out the show.

It was a great episode.
erinjane
It was soo good. I also got to see the first 2 episodes of season 1 tonight. I'm starting to get story lines confused though because I've seen MOST of season 2 but not all, so I'm watching the new episodes, season 2 from the beginning and season 1 from the beginning. Heh, I just couldn't wait. This show has sucked me in almost as bad as six feet under did.
girltrouble
i was so heart broken that joan didn't get that job, and i wanted her to stand up for herself, and demand that job for herself. it's always so awful watching the women getting dead-ended in their careers on the show. i loved the shoulders strap thing. it was like she was dealing with the weight of having to be "joan

i understand why betty did what she did, but i really was thinking it would blow over.

i miss the peggy that doesn't "dress like a little girl."
thirtiesgirl
To some degree, I'm glad Joan got replaced. I think she got a taste of what Peggy has, and having it taken away showed her the value of commanding more respect as a professional (even though the respect given was also very lookist in nature). I hope it will spur her to make some different choices in her life, at least professionally (such as asking for her job back with pay). I think if things had continued as they were, she wouldn't have realized how much she valued the opportunity she'd been given.

And yay for Ms. Draper for standing up to Don and not just letting her feelings blow over.
lananans
Last night was so nuts. I was very proud of Betty for standing up to Don and telling him not to come home. Maybe he'll finally realize what a jackass he has been to her. I would still love for her to have an affair.

I agree with thirties -- maybe now Joan will understand Peggy a bit more. Also, she is really struggling with the settling down. She's a modern girl stuck in the sixties.

Did anyone else notice how after the priest left Peggy's office she was standing there looking very upset, with her hands over her stomach??? I wonder how long it is until she acknowledges that she had a baby. Even when she goes to visit her sister she doesn't ask about him, or bring him anything -- she only brought coloured pencils for the older kids.

God, I love this show.
kari
Another stellar episode!

Betty's really giving it to Don. Good for her for standing up to him, even when he lied to her face.

Joan....really interesting storyline with her this week. I think the scene with her & her fiance in the apt was one of the only times we've seen her out of the office. She projects a strong female personality, but in the end waits on her man hand and foot like all the other women. I felt bad for her not getting the promotion, but I knew they'd hire a dude. Peggy is the only woman who has moved up in the office and she had to claw her way there.

I thought the shot of Joan rubbing her strap indention was brilliant.

You know what I love about this show? Each week, a new set of characters is the focus. It's always about Betty and Don, of course, but the show does a really wonderful job of rotating storylines. Joan, Peter & his wife, Sal and his wife, Roger, the new Creative director dude, the TV dept dude.......there are just so many to choose from and all the storylines are interesting.

thirtiesgirl
Anyone recall that episode...I think it was from season 1...where Joan's female roommate came on to her? Joan just played it off and told her roommate that what they needed was a night out, trying to pick up men. Which is what they did, and brought the men back to the apartment. *Very* interesting dynamic between Joan and the roommate when they brought back the men. Joan seduced her guy in a matter of minutes, got him into her bedroom and left her roommate alone with the other guy, both of them looking very awkward. Nothing else was said about the feelings her roommate revealed for her.
lananans
thirties -- I often wonder about that scene as well. It would be interesting if they referred to it again, but maybe it was just meant as a sort of aside about the place of women in society at the time?? Who knows. I don't blame her for coming onto Joan, I like men, but Joan is smokin'.
erinjane
I love Joan too. I think part of her appeal is that we don't really know that much about her still. Just snippets here and there.
candycane_girl
Mad Men won the emmy for outstanding drama!
lananans
I know! I was watching and I was so happy. Jon Hamm (Don Draper) is even sexier in real life. And the actress who plays Joan was wearing an amazing dress that I wish I owned.. my boyfriend was just like 'wow'. It was neat to see the actors all go on stage, not just as their characters.

There wasn't a new episode this week, right?
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