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doodlebug
This thread is fascinating, and I'm only 1/3 through it (from the beginning). So I wanted to post something, but then I'd have to read the whole thread, and I really need to step back and noodle on the guitar, so I can think about it all and then come back for some more!

I've been thinking a lot lately about human technologies, human social order systems, and the current stage of human evolution as a whole. I never went to university (and let's be real: I was the "troubled, artistic kid" who zoned out to sketch in the margins during the schooling I did get), so I feel like I missed out on this very basic idea that the entire planet (including us), the entire universe, etc., is one completely interdependent, whole, living organism. I've just started reading Krishnamurti, too - anyone else gone down this road of "what if you had no beliefs of any kind"? (Sorry if it's already been discussed....as I said, this thread is too much for me to take in at once. blink.gif)
stargazer
Hey doodle! Good to see you posting in here. smile.gif

I've totally (and still do) journey down the path of having no beliefs. I'm a fan of Osho who writes about our reality and belief systems being heavily influenced by our religions, institutions, various systems, etc. I think this point of view really challenges my concept of self. Is who I am really who I think I am or some construct based on the world around me? blink.gif
crazyoldcatlady
hee hee doodle, we have some wikked smaht busties in here, i've had to go back and re-read some posts to make sure i knew fully what s/he was saying.

not to derail or redirect, but my new existential musings have been gravitating toward the idea of permanence and impermanence, especially in the context of technology (yay futurism!). the internet is probably the biggest paradox; it ensures that the individual's word can (more or less) be immortalized, while the typed word also has a hand in abolishing history (I'm thinking of the prep school in new england that trashed their library books in favor of a few mac's & pc's, and the ensuing outrage). In a paper-less society, it seems like there are two opposite extremes: your present and future are being immortalized, but your past is being forgotten or re-written (that sounds like hyperbole wink.gif )


the corollary to this ides is privacy vs. celebrity. how hard, in the future, will it be to stay off the grid (or at least remain just a small blip on the radar)?
stargazer
QUOTE(crazyoldcatlady @ Oct 25 2009, 12:36 PM) *
not to derail or redirect, but my new existential musings have been gravitating toward the idea of permanence and impermanence, especially in the context of technology (yay futurism!).


I've been thinking of the issue of imperanence. I'm not sure what happened, but, since Wednesday evening, I've been contemplating the issue of not existing. Like, the world before me and the world after me. Basically, me not existing anymore. Well, it scared me and made sleeping difficult. Not sure if it is fearing my own death or what. Trying to figure out what motivated these thoughts and feelings. The christmas cards and family get togethers which remind me the people in my life are getting older and I'm getting older. I mean, I just remember that I felt relatively good going into the holidays.

At the same time, I wonder if part of my preoccupation with existence is related to my difficulty with the unknown and/or knowing alot of things are coming into fruition to me. I'm so used to pushing against the grain...to know if I change how I approach things in my life...good things and people will come into my life. So, maybe, the radical change that things do not feel like a fight anymore, a death from the woman I thought I was, and I'm finally coming into my own. Quite frightening. I will complete a dream of finishing my doctoral program. I have good friends in my life. My intention to meet a life partner in 2010...well, it may happen. Why does that scare me so much?? And I find myself crying about these changes in my life. Like, I finally feel ready for it to happen. And it is happening.

I don't know if I am making sense. I'm not sure if anyone can relate to what I just posted. But, I felt like I had to get this out of me to help me process the combination of fear I'm experiencing right now. sad.gif
zoya
hey, yo... you KNOW I know what you're talking about!!!! scary but exciting.

...and unfortunately I can't expound upon that any more because I have a date with the Victoria & Albert museum!

((((star))))
niki
QUOTE(stargazer @ Dec 27 2009, 06:56 PM) *
I've been thinking of the issue of imperanence. I'm not sure what happened, but, since Wednesday evening, I've been contemplating the issue of not existing..... I wonder if part of my preoccupation with existence is related to my difficulty with the unknown and/or knowing alot of things are coming into fruition to me.... I'm finally coming into my own. Quite frightening.


It all makes a lot of sense to me, as someone older who went through a lot of the changes you describe, with a lot less consciousness at the time than you have. In some ways I feel like the person I was in my 30s is a complete stranger (alien, even) to the person I am continuing to become. If anything, I feel closer to the person I was at 20, full of hopes, beliefs, idealism. Today I have that idealism back, tempered by what I think is a pretty healthy dose of realism. But as for the impermanence of life itself, I've had a number of spiritual experiences in the last 10 years that have convinced me beyond doubt that reincarnation is real, and that growth is a process that develops not simply over lifetimes but over milennia. As I've watched my parents, aunts, uncles, my first wife, and numerous freinds pass on one by one, understanding this has given me great calm and even a bit of excitement about what comes next.

[Bravo, by the way, about the PhD decision. I keep thinking about that. There's a program at Pacifica that I drool over. I'll be paying off student loans the rest of my life as it is. I wonder if I can find any way at my age to justify more?!]
stargazer
Thanks niki and zoya for your input!

zoya, yeah, I know you know what I'm talking about. Heh. wink.gif

QUOTE(niki @ Dec 28 2009, 09:31 AM) *
In some ways I feel like the person I was in my 30s is a complete stranger (alien, even) to the person I am continuing to become.


I think you explained exactly how I feel when I reflect on my 20s.

QUOTE
But as for the impermanence of life itself, I've had a number of spiritual experiences in the last 10 years that have convinced me beyond doubt that reincarnation is real, and that growth is a process that develops not simply over lifetimes but over milennia. As I've watched my parents, aunts, uncles, my first wife, and numerous freinds pass on one by one, understanding this has given me great calm and even a bit of excitement about what comes next.


Yeah, I think I'm more aware of where I fall in the food chain of life this holiday season. I know I am still young at 34, but, something just felt different this past week. Sometimes, I wish I did not have that level of awareness or thought that much about being, nothingness, or existing. But, I realize that my outlook about life has helped me to be proactive at making changes in my life and expressing gratitude to the people in my life.

Thanks again for your input, niki. smile.gif
stargazer
I've been thinking about the notion of perception, illusion, and being. I'm reading Tolle's The Power of Now. It is horribly written and I've drug my feet reading it. BUT, I am able to hang in there to get the meaning of the book. There was this one part of the book that really struck me. For example, how much of my life experience I based on my senses. When I think about death or things ending, it is not so much about the actual finality, but, the fact that I will not be able to SEE (with my eyes) a person, place, thing, etc. So, I had to think about if I did not have the ability of sight. How would my quality of life or how I felt about my life change? I realized in that moment how much of a baby I am about the amount of privilege I have in my life through the use of my senses, my limbs, my body. I was aware how I cripple myself through my own mind and create my own suffering. What would it mean if I let go this perception of myself? My perception of myself, others, the world, has created my own unhappiness. If I let go, I may actually experience something...pain, joy, whatever. Through my own perceptions, I create my own illusions, my own fantasy land, my own suffering.

So, I have all this great insight and I'm slowly working through it and allowing me to feel the freedom which comes with free will, ownership of my own shit, and being responsible...being responsive. Ugh. As liberated as it might sound to the reader of this post...I can actually feel a tension in my body as I let go of this armor I created for myself. It is like slowly working through letting go of a heavy burden I've carried for most of my life.

Sorry for the rambling, long post for any lurkers. I've just been terribly self reflective tonight. I mean, a FB quiz told me 2010 was the year of Perspective for me. And FB quizzes don't lie! tongue.gif Gosh, I hope you people know I am joking here. rolleyes.gif
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