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zelda
Welcome, catsoup! And congrats!

I had hardly ANY symptoms. My biggest one was raging insomnia. But that was it. I didn't even have sore boobs. Ever. I didn't feel pregnant until 13 or 14 weeks. And only then because I started to get a little pooch. Do not worry!

Elliott B. continues to be a true doll. He is very intense, focused, can roll over both ways, loves to "talk" and go on walks....he is the joy of our lives. This 4, 5 month period is a lot of fun because he is out of that more difficult newborn phase (and he had colic, so it was like waaaaay difficult) and he is responsive and smiley and just so joyful.

He is still not the world's best sleeper. This magical, "They'll start to organize themselves into 2 long naps a day" has never materialized with E. He takes 3 to 4 cat naps a day - almost 30 minutes from start to finish. At night he goes down after a bit of a fuss...but he is sleeping longer stretches at night. I am still nursing and sometimes we co sleep...just depends.

He rolls over onto his tummy to sleep, so I've just started putting him that way to sleep. The nurse at my doc's office said it was okay now that he can roll...but it still makes me nervous. Other BUSTies out there got any advice?

Talk soon and looking forward to updates from preggos!
catsoup
Happy to hear about others' lack of symptoms. Because pregnancy symptoms are so hyped and stereotyped (esp. in the media), the lack of symptoms other than the boobs is a little unnerving. I will say though, the boob pain is unreal. Last night I actually kept my bra on after I got home and changed into pajamas. Usually the first thing I do when I get home is take off my bra!

Last night my partner and I were talking about when we'd tell our parents (he's going out of town for the weekend starting today and my mom is coming to visit on Saturday) and he made a comment about it not feeling real to him. I agreed and offered to take another test if it would help (after the first positive one Monday morning I ran out on my lunch break and bought 5 more because of course that one was the last one I had. I took #2 Monday night). He said that would help so I peed on another one last night and again, positive. He was so cute after I showed him; he looked at it and said "I guess we really are pregnant." smile.gif It was adorable. I do agree it won't be really real until after we see the midwives.

Did anyone use any of the many iPhone apps for their pregnancy? There's a ton and I don't want anything too... fanatical, if you know what I mean.
Michelina
Congrats, Catsoup! And yay for me not being the only preggo Bustie on the board once Funnybird delivers! :-) I hear you on the absence of symptoms. It worried me too. I was speaking with a friend who had severe morning sickness about this last week - about how it's said that morning sickness means a healthy pregnancy and how that worries people who don't have it. She pointed out that it may just be something said to comfort those whose heads are constantly in the toilet! Not sure it is actually based on any evidence. Your sore breasts are enough! I had sore breasts too, but not as bad as you're describing.

Mr M felt three good kicks last night! We were both very excited. Baby was really still, but I lied down next to him anyway just in case. He put his hand on my abdomen and baby all of a sudden decided to make his / her presence known to Daddy with three undenial kicks. It was a very special moment.

Oh and Catsoup, feeling like it's not real is very normal. I didn't feel like it was real even after seeing ultrasounds! Even now that I am feeling movement, it doesn't seem real sometimes. I think it's really only hit Mr. M recently with my belly getting big and the kicks now.

Zelda, Elliott sounds amazing. I'm so happy you are all doing well. I love the age he's at too. I saw a baby the same age yesterday and I could have just snatched him up and cuddled him right then and there.

Nickclick, thinking of you!

Aphelendra and Julie, how are the little ones?


julie124
When I was TTC I had a period of time where I was totally obsessed with all the pregnancy symptoms and was always looking at my boobs to see if they were more veiny than before. I kind of laugh about that now because well, ya wanna see veiny...try after you've been nursing for awhile. Those little veins I was obsessing over were nothing compared to the veinfest I have going on there now.

Michelina, glad to hear things are going well, and yay for kicks your Mr. can feel! That's always so fun, and it makes it much more real for them too.

Henry is great, thanks for asking! He is on the verge of walking...no steps on his own yet, but he loves to walk around with his little push toy (a shopping cart) and walks around the furniture all the time. He just started signing "more" at mealtime which has been fun, and he loves books. It's funny...mr julie stays home with him and observed the other day that for a couple weeks he was really concentrating on the motor skills, and this week he's really been all about the talking and the books. Child development really is a fascinating thing...and it's amazing to see everything unfold with this little person in front of our eyes.

Our one issue is the sleeping, which has devolved into him getting up at night every 1 1/2 - 2 hours and often wanting to nurse. Some nights I'm able to cope pretty well, reminding myself that he's a little boy and that teaching him how to fall asleep without nursing will take time. Other times I am SO over the nursing and honestly a little resentful that I'm not in my own bed asleep. I'm definitely committed to nursing until he's a year (which is later this month...I can't believe how time flies) but the weaning process is definitely going to be interesting. A complicating factor is that I'm not really liking the idea of "crying it out" so that tends to limit my options. Ah, yes, it's always something.

Despite the challenges of getting my kid to GO TO SLEEP, for the love of God (I've been known to say that at 4 am), I would not trade this adventure for anything and I definitely want to have another one before too long (though maybe enjoy a nice vacation from pregnancy and nursing for awhile first!). Savor these moments while little one is still inside...and as my brother said to me, "If you like going to the movies, you might consider seeing a few before you have the baby, because it will be a long time before you will see something in the theater." Also, dinner out.

Sorry for the lengthy post...so enjoying hearing about everyone's pregnancies and babies! zelda, 4-5 months is really fun, and he'll just keep getting more fun, so enjoy!
funnybird
Hey everyone.

Just a quick post to say that Babybird (now otherwise known as Benjamin) arrived early 6 days on Tuesday at 3pm. I don't really feel up to posting much about birth as it was pretty awful (40+ hours of labour, epidural due to back labour, episiotomy and ventouse delivery, then a 3 day stay in hospital due to a delay in establishing breast feeding), but he's beautiful and healthy (7lbs 12oz) and we're all doing okay.

I'll post more when I have the time and energy.

xx
catsoup
Congratulations, Funnybird!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love the name Benjamin. It's one of the few boy names I really like!
zelda
Funny, you're a mom!!!!!!!!! Congratulations. I am so happy for you, and I love the name Benjamin as well.

Your birth sounds like mine - the long labor, the back labor...omg. So glad you got the epidural. A lifesaver, no?

Take care of yourself as best you can. I do not know if it was my difficult labor, but I had terrible baby blues those first few weeks after Elliott's arrival. I cried constantly. I thought I was going to have PPD or something, but I truly started to feel better after a few weeks. Do not fear if you are having these emotions. They are NORMAL.

Hang in there with the breastfeeding. I had to supplement at first with formula. Do not worry if this happens to you. It will not prevent you from BFing in the future. Just take care of yourself. You are Benjamin's mother and the best one he will ever have. You are great.
julie124
Hooray, funnybird, and welcome baby Benjamin! (Love that name as well....)

Just come on by when you're feeling up to it, even if that isn't for awhile. And don't forget that taking care of mama IS taking care of baby, especially in the early days. So happy for you! All good things....
Michelina
Funnybird, congratulations on baby Benjamin! Hope you are getting as much rest as possible right now. Sounds like a pretty traumatic delivery - sorry to hear that. I am very happy to hear you and baby are both well. Take care of yourself.

jenny_dreadful
Congratulations Funnybird! Welcome to the world, baby Benjamin. It sounds like a tough labour and delivery, I hope you are resting as much as possible and taking good care of yourself. I'm sure you've heard it a million times, but try to sleep when baby sleeps. I look forward to reading your updates as and when you feel like popping by, I am really happy to hear that Benjamin is here!

....Thinking of Nick, think her induction was scheduled for Wednesday, hoping for happy and healthy mama and baby.
nickclick
yay funny and benjamin! so glad to hear the good news. you won our baby marathon! so many congrats.

i'm typing onehandedly with a baby lillian jeanette in the other. i finally took a break from constantly staring at her every teeny body part to check in. she was born thurs and was a surprising 5lbs 14oz (neither mr.nick nor i are petite adults).

labor was going smoothly until her heart rate was dipping with contractions and i was fully dialated was she wasn't dropping. we waited a bit and tried some pushes but then went for the emergency C. turns out the cord was wrapped around her neck 3 times. anyway she is healthy and perfect in every way.

funny, benjamin was our boy name pick! adorable. reminds me of my friend's blog post.

thank you all again for the well wishes and support. will check in again soon.

catsoup
Congratulations, nickclick!!!!

I'm wide awake again in the middle of the night. Seems to be my new normal - sleep soundly for 4-5 hours and then bam! wide awake! Last night I went to bed earlier because I was so tired all day long and here I am, wide awake before 3am. Rather than toss and turn I got up though because I didn't want to keep my partner up. I'm really hoping I can fall back asleep soon...

jenny_dreadful
Congratulations, Nick! Awesome news, it's wonderful to read that baby Lillian is here. Well done you. I really look forward to reading your updates and learning more about your lovely new 5 day old daughter.

Catsoup, congrats on your pregnancy. I had annoying insomnia in the first few weeks, and I remember reading here about a woman who wrote a novel during bouts of pregnancy-induced insomnia. It passed for me after a few weeks; it seemed so unfair as I was forgoing caffeine in all forms! Hope you get some sleep soon.

It makes my heart glad to think of the two new Busty babies and two new Busty mummies, hope you're doing great out there Funnybird and Nick.
zelda
Congrats, nickclick! I love the name Lillian...the Busties pick out the best names. So glad all is well....

Catsoup, I had HORRIBLE insomnia the first few weeks...and then again around 20 weeks. Both times I literally stayed up for 3 nights in a row. It was miserable. My OB prescribed Ambien which is totally safe for the baby..in fact my LD nurse told me she had to take it every night when she was pregnant. I only took it a few times, but it really helped.

Another thing that helped was knowing that insomnia can in NO way hurt the little one. So don't worry about that.
Fookie
Hi everyone!

Although I haven’t been posting, I’ve been keeping track of all the births (wohoooo Funnybird and Nicklick - you ladies done good!), and progressing pregnancies. Congrats Catsoup on your pregnancy. Michelina, I think of you often. Zelda and everyone else too.

Just wanted to post a quick update on our situation. Our son is doing awesomely! He’s battling his first cold (his chest sounds like a bunch of skeletons dancing the flamenco) but he’s doing so with a smile. His sunny disposition never wavers (except during the 5-7 witching hours where putting him down and walking away for even one 10th of a second can lead to catastrophic meltdowns). He is developing such an awesome and funny little sense of humour. He will “fake” being tired, only to whip his head back up off the ground where he put it down in mock exhaustion only seconds ago, and wait for you to notice before giving forth a series of maniacal “hehehehs”. He adores anything related to being caught off guard. Like “freefalling” out of my arms just to be caught again at the last second, or unpredictable bouncing up and down on my knees (check him out around the 17 second mark to the end – only about 30 seconds total: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Ko8K57Gag...er&list=UL). Me pretending to convulse on the floor and die (what kind of humour is that, right?) sends him into fits of giggles we have to bring him out of just so he can breathe again.

We are blissfully happy, though dealing with the not so silver lining of the adoption cloud at the same time. I mentioned a while back that I had some serious business to update you on. I’m not using our son’s first name in this post b/c I don’t want it to come up in a Google search in the future (or now). Please don’t respond to this with his name (it’s not that we’re worried about being “found” just that there are legal issues here and we don’t want the story to be easily searchable). What’s going on is the following … our son’s birth mother lied. A lot. The reasons why are not important and for our son’s sake, we are not wasting time being angry at her or judging her. We want to think that she did it for reasons she thought were right … but the results of those lies have left the adoption in peril. The first time we became aware of her lies was when her mother accidentally found the adoption papers. Her mother contacted our son’s social worker, frantically, in the hopes that it wasn’t too late for her to take custody of our son. Because our son’s birth mother is well into adulthood, her mother had no rights. And we were able to work things out with her in a very lovely way. All she truly wanted was the opportunity to be a grandparent to her grandchild, and we’ve been huge proponents of open adoption. This relationship has worked out extremely well. She doesn’t’ live very far from us and her youngest daughter is still at home and also playing a role in our son’s life. They are absolutely lovely people. The second thing that came out of this discovery is that our son’s birth mom lied about our son’s paternity.

This means that our son’s birth father was never aware his ex was pregnant, never properly notified of the impending crown wardship status, and never notified that his son would be placed for adoption. Our son’s birth father, once he found out, contacted the children’s aid society and made a claim for our son. Since then, he has continually maintained that he will do whatever it takes to get his son back. DNA tests came back positive. He has had approximately two months to present a parenting plan, which he has not done. He has also not retained a lawyer, or taken any of the legal steps necessary to register her intent with the court. After several scary months it seems that he will not be in a position to follow through with any of his stated intentions. While this is cause to celebrate on the one hand it is also heart-breaking on so many levels. While he is not in a position for so many reasons to parent, had he known from the beginning he would have had the chance. He would have had the opportunity to turn his life around and be the dad he wanted to be. He never had the opportunity and he will spend the rest of his life knowing that the opportunity was stolen from him in the most unfair way possible. It is heartbreaking for us too because while we have no actual responsibility for anything that happened (this was a public system adoption, they did all the investigating and notifying etc. etc.) we feel awful about it. The only silver lining being that our son would have most likely ended up in care sooner than later had his birth father not “turned his life around” after his birth. But we will never know if he could have or not, though based on the place he is in now in life it is very unlikely that he could have.

It’s also heartbreaking because all of this will be new adoption baggage for our son to carry around. His story is no longer one of birth parents who “chose to give him a better” life, but one of deception and lies. Though he will know that his birth dad did “want” him.

We are now waiting for our son’s birth dad to either sign off on the adoption or for children’s aid to have a judge take his rights from him so that the adoption can be finalized. We have no idea how much time any of this will take. We have had some limited email contact with our son’s birth father (we’ve sent pictures, told him about us and about our son). He has responded that he is overwhelmed, and plans to write back later, but is very thankful for the contact and photos. We are committed to including him in our son’s life in whatever way is possible and hopefully growing that into more openness as is healthy over time and as our son’s birth father’s life situation improves.

I know this was long, but I had a lot to share. There is nothing we would change and we are thrilled at the prospects of being able to include more and more of our son’s birth family into our lives. When we started on this journey we had many a “well meaning” friend or relative tell us “horror stories” of birth parents coming back to take away their child … and we rolled our eyes at all of them, told them these were urban legends, that these things didn’t actually happen often enough to even think about it, that there were measures in place to prevent such things from happening etc. etc. The part about all of this that really leaves me sick, is that short of hooking birth mother’s up to lie detectors (a terrible option) there is no way to actually prevent this sort of thing from happening. And it probably happens much more than anyone would like to think or admit. In 20 years we’re the first couple who have had this happen to them, says our social worker … though in another breath he’ll admit freely that it’s probably the case in many many more cases, just that birth family/father never found out.
catsoup
Fookie, I'm sorry to hear about the trouble you're going through. You and your family will be in my thoughts.... That said, your little one is absolutely adorable! Thanks for sharing that video!
catsoup
And now there's nausea. Yesterday I felt nauseous most of the day, even having to hurry to the bathroom at work to retch. No actual vomit yet, just heaving and feeling gross. Add that to the exhaustion and somewhat sore boobs and I definitely feel pregnant now. I wish I could tell people why I feel so gross. I keep getting "you look tired" and "you doing okay?" comments from coworkers. Both are code for "you look like crap" which I do of course. tongue.gif
aphelendra
pardon my one handed typing, i've got a babe cuurently chewing on my left nip (yes, chewing). will be back later to update proper-style, but in case i get sidetracked (again), wanted to send love and condolences to fookie. just makes it even clearer how wonderfully lucky this little boy is to have found his way into your family.

nick and funny, congrats on the new little ones, i look forward to hearing about them!
jenny_dreadful
Fookie, it's lovely to hear from you and to see your gorgeous little man so happy in your video. He looks so full of fun, and I love how he throws himself into laughing so hard. What a complex situation your adoption has become, I am so blown away by the grace and determination with which you are handling it. Your son is lucky indeed to have you both. I wish you all the best in getting the adoption finalized and to integrating your son's birth father (and his family) into his life in a way that brings the most happiness to everyone.
zelda
Fookie, Jenny Dreadful explained herself so beautifully, I can only say.....I totally repeat everything Jenny Dreadful has said! Jenny, I hope you don't mind me borrowing your words. :-)

I can only sit back and admire you, Fookie....you and Mr. F both...for your patience and overwhelming sense of love for your kiddo. My gut tells me all will work out well...and just perfectly for your wonderful family. By the way, I LOVED the You Tube video!!! Elliott does the same hysterical breathless laughing, and it is the best sound on EARTH! :-)
funnybird
Fookie, wow... Yes, you are indeed an inspiration. Your strength and grace are amazing. My heart breaks for the situation with your son's birth family (including his birth mother - how mixed-up and desperate she must be), but you are dealing with it so well. He is beautiful! (And so are you!)

I need some inspiring strength right now. Things are going well with Babybird. He's thriving; eating, gaining weight and sleeping well. But there's a dark cloud over us right now as it looks as if Architect Boy's cancer has returned. Remember I wrote about the abdominal pains he'd been having, and how he had blood tests to rule out any relapse? Well, his oncologist also sent him for a CT scan to be sure. We thought this was just a formality, but we received a call on Friday to say that an enlarged lymph node had been found and he will need to start chemotherapy asap. We have an appointment on Wednesday morning to find out more.

I'm just numb with shock at the moment. Caring for the little man is so all-consuming that we've been able to keep our minds off what Wednesday might hold, but I have a feeling we have a pretty grim few months ahead.

I really wanted to be able to post about the joys of motherhood, but instead I'm bringing the thread down again. I'm sorry.
Fookie
Catsoup, Aphelendra, Jenny_Dreadful, Zelda, FunnyBird ... thank you all so much for your loveliness. I can't say I've imagined myself as dealing with any of this with "grace" but I'm going to try to be a bit more generous with myself and see what you're seeing.

Funny, I'm so sorry about ArchitectBoy's CT results. I can't imagine how hard it must be to get that news, ever, but especially right now when you're celebrating the arrival of BabyBird and just getting into the swing of things. I will be thinking about you every day and sending crazy-good vibes your way on Wednesday. From past posts I have a sense that you and Architect Boy can get through just about anything together.
zelda
Fookie, you are a bundle of grace and loveliness!!!

Funny, damn it! I am so sorry this is happening now when your every focus should be Babybird. I do know that you and Mr. F are totally able to handle whatever comes your way, but that doesn't make this situation fair or easy. It's very stressful to have a new baby, even when all is well. Mr. Z and I have been together 10 years, and this year has easily been one of the most stressful years of our marriage even with all of the joy of having Elliott.

Having his health news to deal with has got to put even more strain.

I do have every faith all will be well....Mr. F has been to the doctor regularly and you are monitoring everything carefully. It sounds like he has excellent health care. Please keep us informed and please know we are all thinking of you and sending you every good thought.

Speaking of health care...I continue to be incredibly depressed by the state of health care in the USA. I am paying $500 a MONTH to insure all three of us via my employer's health care plan. And this plan is very limited. I can no longer go to my OB. We cannot take Elliott to the fancy children's hospital nor can we see any specialists affiliated with that hospital. It makes me SCREAM. We cannot afford the more expensive plan.

This plan pays for all well check ups and gives us $1000 for sick visits and tests throughout the year. After that, we have to meet a $4000 deductible before the plan will pay ANYTHING out....and even then they only pay 80% of everything.

And for this privilege we pay $500 a month.

I AM SO MAD!!!!!
Fookie
Zelda ... WHAT @#%@#%@#%?

Holy crapballs. That's insane. I know the system in the US is screwy, but I hadn't really known of it in such concrete terms. That's completely insane ... how do people do it? $500/month!!!!! That's almost a mortgage payment depending on where you live ... or a payment for a Lexus for peat sakes ... Will any of this change with the health reform package?

There's plenty to complain about up in Canada too, but by george do we ever have it good in comparison. I'm so mad for you, Zelda!
nickclick
thinking of funny and Architect Boy..... how was your appointment yesterday????

thinking of you too, Fookie.. hope all is well with your cutie patootie.
Fookie
Funny, how did the appointment go? I tried to log in 100 times yesterday to see how you were doing and tell you I was thinking of you and Architect Boy.

zelda
Yes, I couldn't log in either!

Thinking of Architect Boy and wondering what is going on....

Fookie, thank you for your empathetic response. Yeah, the health care system pretty much SUCKS. Our situation is not unheard of...it's on the expensive end of things, but countless Americans have very similar plans. What is so crazy is I am a PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER! You would think of all people I would have a decent plan....but I don't.

The new health care bill is good in that is allows people to keep their children on their plans until age 26 and it doesn't prevent people from getting coverage if they have pre-existing conditions....meaning, an insurance company can't refuse to cover you just because you had cancer once or something. Also, they can't max you out...meaning an insurance company cannot say, "That's enough, we can't cover you anymore, you reached a lifetime cap" like you could before. (Americans, am I missing anything?)

So in some important ways it is better, but it hasn't done much to really help the average American's bottom line. And the really crappy thing is that I think the insurance companies are using the bill (which is a good bill) to justify raising their costs...it just sucks so bad.

Yeah, $500 a month...and again, Fookie...that is the CHEAPEST PLAN for a family. Many of the family plans are about $600 or $700 a month. Unfuckingbelievable.

I can't think too hard about it because it pains me. I've actually started exploring teaching at some tony private schools in the area because a lot of them have better benefits. This pains me because I really believe in the idea of public education. :-(
zelda
Oh, and Fookie....forgot another reason why we are "lucky"....we HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE.

I think the new plan is supposed to also create insurance pools that people can buy coverage from if they don't get it from their employer, but I am not sure when that happens and how...
aphelendra
currently paying 700$ to insure myself and the baby through COBRA . . . . will be going back on my parents plan in january, and the baby is going to have to go on state insurance, which sucks, but what can I do? At least that's an option in this state.

We can't even afford to live on our own because of health insurance. In this area, we could get an apartment for not much more than what we pay to insure two out of the three of us. Mr. has insurance through a part time retail job, (which he only works for the insurance) but it sucks and only covers $4,000 a year, so is useless to me and the baby.

Insanity!!!!!!!! Zelda, I think we should be moving in a northernly direction . . . .

Anyways, thinking of Architect Boy . . . . . I have every hope that you two will get past this and raise your beautiful new family together.

And thinking of you fookie, I hope things are continuing in an upwards and forwards direction. And yes, you should give yourself credit. Allowing your son's grandparents and father in his life, and striving to make sure he has ties to his bio family is admirable, especially considering the circumstances and custody issues. Graceful indeed!

Baby Sarah M is going through a 'four month sleep regression', which I didn't know existed until it happened, so we're a bit tired around these parts. Other than that, she's rolling over, smiling and giggling lots, and is holding toys and rattles (which usually end up in a mouthwards direction). Amazing that they really do become little people . . . . .

funnybird
Wow, thanks for reminding me of exactly how screwed we'd currently be without the NHS!

Thanks for all your thoughts and good vibes. Architect Boy had his first dose of chemotherapy yesterday. It turns out that the cancer has indeed returned, this time to a lymph node in his abdomen. Once again, his prognosis is very good, but he will need 3 or 4 doses to zap the thing. He's being treated as an outpatient so will be at home with me and Babybird for the next few months. No side effects so far, but it's still early days... He's being pumped full of steroids and anti-emetics to keep the nausea at bay.

Our approach so far has been to take each day at a time, and not feel too sorry for ourselves. Right now AB is sitting reading and listening Dvorak's Trout Quintets with Babybird asleep in his arms, and I'm thinking I really should appreciate the respite from feeling like a dairy cow and do some housework. Did I mention that the kid never stops eating? My poor nipples are so sore! He's gorgeous though, and keeps us amused with the funny little faces he pulls and the noises he makes.
aphelendra
Emerging from migraine hidey-hole . . . .

Funny, so glad AB's prognosis is good. Cancer is such a scary diagnosis, but it really has become a very treatable disease in many cases. I hope he doesn't have too hard a time with the chemo.

And for pete's sake woman, you are a new momma and your husband has cancer. forget the housework! Call a friend or relative and make them do it! i'd do it for ya if i could.

back to migraine dungeon . . . . there are no good drugs for nursing moms. dry.gif
zelda
Funny to HELL with the housework. (If you can afford it, could you hire a cleaning service? Mr. Z and I used one during those early days of colic with baby E., and it was a lifesaver.) I really, really hope Architect Boy is on the mend soon...I have every faith they will be able to tackle this cancer and beat it. Right now you need to just focus on each other...

I'm sorry your nipples are sore. I don't know if you have Lansinoh cream in the UK, but it was my saving grace in the early days. It took me 8 to 10 weeks for my nips to completely get used to the BFing. Now (6 months later) it's SOOOOOO crazy easy and absolutely zero pain.

Now, a question...

BUST mamas, have you tried Ferberizing your baby?

I know, I know...his name is such a dirty word, but Mr. Z and I have been at our wit's end with Mr. E. He has gone from waking once a night to 5 to 6 to 7 times a night. I tried to take him to my bed...sometimes that would work, but sometimes he would scream in anger because he was sleepy and couldn't fall asleep. We've all been exhausted, including him. His sleep has just been getting worse.

I never thought I would do the cry it out thing, but we bought and read the Ferber book, and I have to say I was surprised by how gentle and kind he comes across...I guess so much out there paints him as this mean old doctor who wants babies to cry.

We've practiced his progressive waiting approach for the past few nights. The first night was utter torture with little E crying for about 40 minutes before sleeping (we comforted him in increasing intervals). But the past three nights he has fallen asleep within 5 to 10 minutes AND last night he slept through the night with just two little peeps (and he immediately fell back asleep).

He greets us every morning with a huge grin and his is usual cheerful, happy self. And Mr. Z and I are so much less exhausted...we don't spend 45 minutes to an hour several times a day bouncing him, blowing a hair dryer, and rocking him in an effort to get him to drift off again.

My heart and gut tell me little E is JUST FINE. But I have sort of surprised myself that we are doing this, and I can't tell my super AP friend because she thinks Ferberization is abusive!!!

What do you all think?
Fookie
Zelda,

We sort of Ferberized without really realizing we were doing it. It happened the week before we went camping in August. We realized that this business of holding Baby F in our arms as he screeched his head off for up to 30 minutes before falling asleep wasn’t going to go over too well at the campground, so decided to try sleep training him. What made us realize it was possible was an unplanned six hour drive we’d had to make with him, where when he screamed in the car we had no choice but to let him put himself to sleep. And he did. Every time. And he was fine. It was hard on us to listen to him, but he self-soothed and put himself to sleep. Lack of ability to self-sooth is one of the early indications that a baby might end up with a FASD diagnosis (and since Baby F’s birth mom admitted to some drinking, this weighed heavily on our minds the first few months – not that it doesn’t now, but we exhausted our worrying and are taking more of a “wait and see” approach now) so we were very excited to not only find he could put himself to sleep, but to cross that marker off the list.

Baby F. wakes up happy and thrilled to see us every morning. He’s totally fine. He regressed shortly after camping, and we sort of cheat now (give him his last bottle when we know he’ll fall asleep drinking it … or sometimes let him fall asleep in my arms … but he does that now without screaming and it takes about 10 minutes … for whatever reason me humming “You are my sunshine” is all he needs sometimes).

The book I had read wasn’t touting a specific method and was more geared to getting him to sleep through the night. The magic tip for us (I honestly didn’t really read any further in the book after reading this and seeing it work first time around) was making sure that Baby F had ingested at least 24 ounces in the 12 hours before going to sleep. Easier to know when you’re bottle feeding, I know. From that point, we did a bit of what you describe, with letting him put himself to sleep. I’d fold clothes in his room, etc. He’d scream for a few minutes. Then it would turn into repeated “ooh, oooh” as he put himself to sleep. I think the regression coincided with him realizing he had power over us (somewhere around the six month mark). But all in all we’re pretty happy with the way things are going. He’s been sleeping about 12 hours straight each night since July, and going down without much of a fuss since early August.

Of course last night he woke up at 10:30 screaming bloody murder, and it took me until 12:15 before I could put him down again, but that’s not something that happens more than once in a blue moon.

At the end of the day, like everything else, you should just remind yourself that you are a good parent, you’re not neglecting or mistreating E. at all, and that a good night’s sleep is good for ALL OF YOU!

Good luck.
zelda
Thank you, Fookie, for your encouraging words. They mean so much. These past few days E has fallen asleep for his naps and at night with less than 10 minutes (usually less than 5) of crying. We never even make it to the first "check" Ferber recommends. (Of course in the first few days we checked on him every 3 to 5 to 7 minutes in the beginning.)

Anyway, he just falls asleep after a bit of crying. I always check on him after I'm sure he's asleep, and he seems very peaceful. And he sleeps for the night!

I have to imagine this is better for him than the constant shushing, blowing the hair dryer, rocking, overfeeding him (I nursed to try to get him to sleep, and sometimes he would end up spitting up because he really wasn't hungry) and the entire routine we were doing literally 3 to 4 to even 5 times a night to try and get him to get rest. How can that be restful for him? There were many times when we were doing this that he would shriek and pound our chests with his little fists out of frustration and exhaustion. But I think we were actually overstimulating him with all our song and dance.

Now he just gets over that fatigue hump and he is out, peacefully asleep.

Like I said, my gut tells me we are doing nothing wrong. It's my hope that as the days and weeks go on, he will just go to sleep without having to cry first. However, I was reading my trusty Dr. Spock, and he says some babies simply *need* to release that bit of energy before they drift off, and that's OKAY.

I think that as moms we want to think we should never, ever let our babies cry, but when crying is your ONLY real form of verbal expression, shouldn't we accept that there are different types of cries? I'd like to think E's cry is not one of abandonment or pain, but of release before he drifts off to dreamland.
Michelina
I've been on a bit of a hiatus lately. Fookie, thank you for sharing your situation with us. "Grace" was the term that also came to my mind as I read your post about your son and his birth parents. You are doing everything you can in his best interest, and this speaks to what wonderful parents you and Mr F are. You should be very proud of yourselves. A difficult situation indeed, but I have every faith that all will work out thanks to your love and determination.

Funnybird, I am so sorry about AB's cancer return. I am also relieved to hear that the prognosis is good. I agree with the others - get as much help as you can right now, even if it means a cleaning service. You are busy taking care of your two men - don't forget about you. I am thinking of you and AB.

All is well with me. I am 25 + 3 today and am looking forward to hitting that 3rd tri mark. Baby is kicking lots, but it's still very gentle and "tickly." I feel good, but did have a few symptoms lately including charlie horses at night, bleeding gums on occasion, and a pregnancy -related hot flash! But it's all good and I appreciate my baby and pregnancy every day.

Catsoup, how are you?
julie124
Hello all...

Fookie, thank you for sharing your situation with us...I am also amazed with the grace with which you're handling everything (although I guess I shouldn't be...parenthood does kind of change the game and makes us do things even we didn't think ourselves capable of) and you and your family are in my thoughts.

As are you and yours, funny. I'm so sorry to hear about the cancer recurrence for AB, but happy to hear that the prognosis is good. And I third the housecleaning thing....unless you find it comforting (I often find that housecleaning gives me a sense of accomplishment and control I can't get in other parts of my life), let it go.

zelda, your post was really timely. We haven't Ferberized yet, but I have been going through a very similar scenario to what you described - getting up 5 to 7 times a night, shushing and usually giving up and nursing him back to sleep. What typically is happening for me is that at some point during the night, he wants to do a big nursing session and I end up just laying down with him in his room "for a minute" - and cut to two hours later with him still attached to my boob and me waking up dazed. I've really been loath to do the Ferber method, even though I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing - it just didn't sit well with what I wanted to do. Now we're at a year old and I want to do a gradual wean off of breastfeeding, and honestly I can't keep up this not-sleeping-in-my-own-bed thing for much longer. So my new plan is to try to get him used to being soothed without the breast during all his wakeups, then at some point to do the Ferber thing if he's still doing this many wakings.

I thought my pediatrician had a good take on this whole thing - she said about Ferber, "It's not really cry-it-out, it's much kinder than that. And basically it's a teaching thing - this is a skill he doesn't yet have (soothing himself back to sleep), so we're going to teach him how to do it."

So that leads me to a question for the Bustie moms - any tips on doing a gradual wean off of breastfeeding? He does a combination of bottle (when I'm at work) and breast right now. We've just started introducing cow's milk, which he seems to like but so far only drinks in small doses. I decided that for my birthday in late January I want at least four hours of uninterrupted sleep per night and a kiddo who is mostly weaned (I'm OK with an occasional nurse or a bedtime nurse at that point if we're not all the way there, I just want to be most of the way there).
zelda
Julie, I, too am trying to wean off the night nurse as well as Ferberize...prior to trying the Ferber approach, (because I didn't want to overwhelm E with change), what I did was try to nurse him a little less each night. (He's only 6 months, so he's not ready for cow's milk, and I do plan to continue BFing for a while longer.) Sometimes I would skip a night all together of nursing. At first I was worried he would be really hungry, but he is so big and eats so much during the day (both breast milk, formula, and sometimes rice cereal), I knew he wasn't truly hungry but just used to being fed at that time. Also, like I said, I was often nursing him lying down to try and get some sleep. I was mostly using it as a sleep-inducer. (I, too, have done that, "Oh, let me just lie down for a moment" and then two hours later I wake up groggy and E is asleep at my boob.) By the way, Ferber has a whole chapter in his book on that but I sort of only skimmed it since I think we have been pretty successful in this area.

So I guess my biggest tip would be just reduce the boob a bit at a time. E would never even protest unless he was exhausted (I can tell this pretty well), and I knew he just wanted the breast for comfort, not food. Also, he was spitting up SO much in the night which he hardly ever does in the day anymore...so I know I was overfeeding him which actually sort of encouraged me to continue with our plan of weaning night feeds because I know that has got to be uncomfortable for him.

Have you read "The No Cry Sleep Solution" by Pantley? Some people really like it who are opposed to the Ferber method...I read it, but I just didn't feel like it gave me CONCRETE steps like Ferber does. (She really lets Ferber have it, by the way, and I totally disagree with her tone on that.)

Let me tell you, when I bought the Ferber book it was like I was waiting for someone to stop me in the bookstore and accuse me of being a terrible mom. I NEVER wanted to try it. But I was really surprised when I read it. His tone is very gentle and understanding. You may want to just read it and not implement anything yet. I think your pediatrician is right. I don't see it so much as cry it out as I do helping E learn to go to sleep on his own.

I know some AP folks out there will say babies aren't meant to sleep on their own, but you know what? Back when we lived in the tribal days, babies also didn't ride in car seats, get life-saving medical care, drink out of bottles when their mommies went to work, or fly in airplanes. It frustrates me that "this is the natural way" argument is always what you get from AP community...there is a LOT to be said about the natural way of doing things, and I am a big believer in a lot of what AP moms believe (and a big believer in doing what works for YOUR family), but I refuse to believe that formula-feeding, crib training, or whatever works for you and your baby make you a bad parent. Okay, sorry...had to vent there. (Can you tell I hang out with some pretty hardcore AP types? Wink wink.)

We are breaking one Ferber rule. The past week or so E is pretty much sleeping through the night with a couple of cries that he solves on his own. Around 5:45 AM he wakes up, and I take him to my bed and feed him and then we drift off together for one more hour. His prior feed is around 7:30 or 8 pm, so he is going now the entire night without eating. Ferber would say to not move the baby prior to his actual "waking up for the day" so he doesn't get confused about where he goes to sleep and wakes up, but so far, it is working out for now.

Last night the most amazing thing happened. We did the bedtime routine, and I put E into his crib drowsy but awake. He literally SMILED at me and then I left, and he was still awake. I heard him on the monitor "talking" to himself for about 5 minutes, and then he drifted off. NO CRYING. Now just today he had to cry for about 3 or 4 minutes before his mid morning nap, but I am hoping last night was a preview of things to come.
aphelendra
Just a quick poke in - we're still on vacation at the in-laws, but I've been following this conversation with interest. I will say this: I think one of the oft forgotten tenets of AP is to listen to the needs of your baby. Zelda, if your instinct is that E is doing well, and it sounds like he is, then I think you have proven to be a very attached, and more importantly thoughtful, parent. You seem to be listening to his needs, which is the whole point of attachment parenting. Clearly, he is sleeping better now than before, which is the really important thing. Not all babies need to be carried all day and slept with all night.

A quick aside - baby Sarah is doing well, but she has been tentatively diagnosed with strabismus, a condition where one or both of the eyes doesn't line up properly, resulting in a slightly cross eyed baby. We're off to see a specialist on the 9th. She may have to have surgery in order to ensure her vision develops properly. Luckily, she seems to be able to see well enough now that she is recognizing us, grasping, rolling over, all the normal baby stuff. Wondering if any busties have friends/relatives/acquaintances who have dealt with this? My dad had it as a baby, but obviously doesn't remember much about the treatment.

Michelina, I'm so glad to hear that you're doing well! Enjoy this time before the third trimester, when you can still sleep/roll over/walk up stairs/see your feet/talk to your spouse without crying or screaming . . . .

And yes Catsoup, how are you?
catsoup
Hi,

I only have a few minutes but saw someone asked how I was. I'll post a less self-involved post soon.

I'm doing okay. Most of the day I'm feeling nauseated, tired, cranky, and just icky. Very little actual vomiting but nothing food wise is appealling to me (and as someone who loves food and eating this is really difficult for me) and I'm just not feelinG well. We had our first appointment with the midwives this week and she ordered an ultrasound since my periods have been so irregular. We had hoped I'd be 10weeks but it turned out I was only 7 on Monday. This was disappointing because it means I have many more weeks of feeling like shit before the magic second trimester. The ultrasound tech was less than friendly and raced through the entire thing like she was in a speed competition so nothing about it was very fun. sad.gif She was nearly out the door before I could ask for a picture to take with us and she hurried to print one before leaving. So we have a picure but no idea what we're lookig at.

I hate to sound whiny. I'm just sick of feeling miserable. I've commented more than once that I'm impressed anyone has a second child. smile.gif

more later. Off to visit more family.
Michelina
Catsoup, sorry to hear how icky you are feeling. Are you feeling any better now? And what a crappy ultrasound experience! I'm so fortunate that my first ultrasounds were done by physicians who walked me through everything. One bonus of IVF is the better early pregnancy care.

My SIL had a really crappy pregnancy too, and is already talking about baby #2. I guess women may sort of forget how bad it is once it's behind them.

We got the crib, stroller, and playpen this weekend. We'll start the set up in the new year. The three month countdown is now on!
catsoup
I don't know if I'm feeling better. I caught a dreadful cold last Wednesday and have been fighting sore throat, sneezing, runny nose, cough, etc since then. While I had the cold, my nausea seemed to go away, which was nice. I'm almost done with the cold, just dealing with a cough and exhaustion now. The nausea came back Monday with a fun evening of vomiting but I haven't felt too horrible since then. I'm hoping that's progress but who knows. smile.gif

Had an interesting discussion/fight with my partner last night. He was cleaning and seemed irritated that I wasn't helping and we had a long talk. He's frustrated with my lack of doing anything and doesn't seem to fully get how horrible I'm feeling and how tired I am and that it's normal. I've always been kind of a baby when it comes to being sick, choosing to rest and focus on getting better rather than barreling through sickness, which is completely the opposite of what he does. I'm frustrated that he's frustrated with me. I kind of think he should be ok with picking up the slack when it comes to household chores, etc. since I have to feel so crummy. He's getting sick of my whining and I tried explaining that he's the only person I can complain to since we haven't really told anyone outside of our parents. It's not ideal and I probably should pull back on the "ugh, I feel like puking again" talk but it is what it is. He doesn't seem to get that I put on a "no really, I'm fine" face all day long at work when I feel like shit and by the time I get home from work I'm sick of it.

So, long story not so short, things are a little tough right now. Pile on to that holiday stress and really fucking cold weather and ta-da! that's my life.

How's everyone else?
aphelendra
All right ladies. I'm breaking the silence. How is everyone?

Catsoup? Feeling any better?
catsoup
I'm doing okay. I'll eleven weeks today and early last week thought the nausea and vomiting were behind me but let's just say the last few days have shown otherwise. smile.gif I'm very sick of being sick, miss the days I enjoyed eating, and am hoping in a couple weeks all this will be behind me. We have our second appointment with the midwives today and I'm looking forward to hopefully hearing the heartbeat.

How's everyone else? I miss this thread being more active!!!
aphelendra
Cheer up catsoup! If you're like most women, the worst is probably very nearly behind you. I remember around 10-11 weeks I started having some slight improvements, a couple good days here, a couple good days there . . . . And then by 13-14 weeks I felt pretty much back to normal. It does feel never ending at the time though, blech.

Now where is everybody????
catsoup
One of my best friends just had a miscarriage. We were sooooo excited to be pregnant together, her second and my first. I'm so sad for her and her family. She's doing okay and sounded as good as you could in the wake of the news and experience, but my heart aches for her. sad.gif

Our due dates were just a couple weeks apart. Now it's really going to change the pregnancy experience my partner and I thought we would be sharing with her and her partner.

In other news....

We got to hear the heartbeat on Monday at my appointment. It was so amazing - I laughed and nearly cried at the same time. I've lost five pounds in the four weeks between my last appointment and this one. The midwife isn't too nervous about that yet but she's keeping an eye on me. The nausea is still here, it comes and goes throughout the day. I haven't puked since Monday, so I'm calling that progress. rolleyes.gif I'm really missing all the yummy holiday treats around me - none of them are appealing to me right now. I baked a ton of cookies last weekend and have yet to eat one. That has never ever happened before.

Hope everyone is doing well!
Michelina
Catsoup, I am so sorry to hear about your friend's miscarriage. It will be difficult for everyone now after all of the excitement and anticipation of having babies at the same time. I'm sure she appreciates your sensitivity. I'm glad to hear that things are improving on the morning sickness front. You've really had a bad go of it. I hope you can enjoy those Christmas goodies soon!

Aphelendra, nice to hear from you! How is your daughter? She must be growing and changing quickly!

Things with me are good. I had my 29-week ultrasound on Monday. We got great face shots and even saw a yawn. It was really amazing. Baby measured around the 50th so growth is looking good. Head is down and legs are scrunched into my right side. I am not feeling a lot of movement lately, which worries me on occasion. Then when I'm asleep, I'll often wake up to kicks on my right so that is comforting. I just feel like baby used to be more active. Did anyone find baby became less active at this stage?
zelda
catsoup, so sorry to hear about your friend's miscarriage. I know you'll be there for her during this tough time, but there's that loss of not getting to go through the pregnancy experience together. I really hope you feel better soon. I'm one of those weirdos who never got sick (don't hate me), but every woman I know with morning sickness promises it will get by the second tri.

Michelina, Elliott's movements would come and go. Some days and weeks he was more active than others. I remember when I would worry that I hadn't felt him, I would drink some OJ or a bit of soda and then lie down on my left side. He would almost always move after that. It's such a reassuring feeling, I know! You're almost on the home stretch, lady! Sooooo exciting. Glad the ultrasound went well.

Mr. E is almost 7 months and a total doll. Still breastfeeding and now working in some solid foods, too. Christmas has been extra fun with him around. Pregnant BUSTies, you are in for a treat next holiday season.

More later...xoxo to all!
aphelendra
Micheline - I remember not feeling as much movement as I got close to the 30 week mark, a lot of it has to do with the baby's growth. I think it's around this time that the baby starts to get really cramped in the uterus, so the movements take on a different quality and aren't quite as noticeable.

Good advice my midwife gave me - do kick counts within the hour after you eat. I'm someone who did kick counts usually every day, because I don't think my baby was a particularly energetic one in utero. Also, I was sitting on my behind counting contractions for most of my third tri rolleyes.gif, so I had the time. Ha!

Zelda! I can't believe he's SEVEN months old! Everyone tells you how fast time goes, but you just kind of figure that's just a thing people say. But it really really really is true.

Catsoup - congrats on the heartbeat!

Baby is up . . . . more later!
Michelina
Happy new year! How is everyone? Thanks for the words of reassurance over baby's movements, Zelda and Aphelendra. Baby has been quite active lately and is definitely showing more patterns to his / her daily movements.

How is everyone? Catsoup, how are you feeling these days?

I am doing well. I'm 33 weeks tomorrow so the end is nearing. I feel a little panicky now and then as there is SO much left to do, but I think we'll get it all in. I'm feeling well - just a little short of breath and awkward at times. All in all I am loving this pregnancy, and am very excited to meet our bundle in 2 months (or less!) now. Counting down the days to the mat leave. My last day will be Feb 25 if all goes as planned.
nickclick
Michelina, I can't believe it's almost time! so much yay!

Zelda, good to hear from you and Elliott. 7 months! well, almost 8 by now....

Lillian is about 2 1/2 months and doing well. she's happy and strong and so pretty. soon i will teach her that one's value is not based on her exterior but until then i'm gonna tell her she's just the cutest baby EVER!

so i'm wondering if there's interest in branching off a BUSTie moms thread?
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